SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Me (40) and my wife (42) have been married for 12 years and together for 14.

dday1: Caught my wife on an emotional (physical too?) affair five years ago which lasted for months. She denied, blamed me, trickle truth, hysterical bonding. Decided to reconcile. We have not done work that was needed (counselling, sharing our feelings, working on restoring the trust, etc). I realize it now. We did very little and just continued living like nothing happened. Rug swept. Now I understand that there was no chance for reconciliation under those circumstances. No chance of healing the trauma for me. Her affair ended then as AP moved to another country.

Now: relationship deteriorated for five years. She became distant and not the person I loved and knew. Hugs, cuddles, watching series together, joking and such slowly diminished and now non existent. Same with sex. We haven't slept in close to a year. She developed substance use issues, might be because of her guilt/shame, I have no idea, she could never explain when I asked and doesn't like to talk about it so stopped asking after a while. Again rug swept. But that is another long and painful story for me. I went through nightmares with her several times.

Overall our communication is broken now, and has been for more than a year, we do not share our inner world, thoughts, what bothers us, plans, etc. We do not even have arguments anymore. I was walking on eggshells because of her substance use issues, I didn't want to trigger her to relapse.

As I told her I want to separate several months ago we're in this mode of roommates, we barely talk and only about mundane things and kid related issues. She is nice but very distant and closed.

Never once she raised a question of separation, of what she wants from this marriage, from me, how she feels etc.

dday2: there is this guy, that helped her when she struggled with substance abuse and I was not around for a while. I know about him for several months, but do not know when they met and when it started. It has just recently occurred to me that she is having another affair. She told me earlier he was just friend (she never had male friends, except for the AP five years ago when she also claimed he was a friend) She mentioned once that that guy has feelings for her but she is not interested in him. I did not react at the time.

I know for a fact they are communicating a lot, phone calls, texting every single day. This is ongoing. She is seeing him secretly. I can dig deeper and gather some intelligence to get more proofs but I'm thinking if it is even necessary after what she did five years ago. This is enough evidence of an affair for me. And definitely a sign she is not committed to M.

So now I'm thinking shall I ask her if she wants to try and fix things? She is unaware of the fact that I know and I don't want to confront her just yet and am thinking on how and when to better do it. For now I just want the answer to that simple question and then we can go from there. We can start talking. Otherwise I'll just continue with separation and divorce. I'm not going to live like that anymore. Enough is enough. I want my self respect and dignity back. I want peace.

Now that I've put that in writing and re read it looks quite bad. It is good to get that out though, I feel better and it gives me clarity. I have no one to discuss it, though I already reached out to a therapist whose specialty is infidelity.

Thanks for reading.

[This message edited by pager999 at 1:13 AM, Friday, September 20th]

Welcome to SI and sorry that you're here. There are some posts that are pinned to the top of the page that we encourage new members to read. There are others with bull's eye icons that are good, too. The Healing Library is at the top of the page and links to a ton of great information, including the list of acronyms we use.

I'm glad you have an appointment for IC (individual counseling) with a betrayal trauma specialist. The untreated trauma from 5 years ago will need to be dealt with, too.

As you read back through what you wrote, pretend like a friend is telling you this. What advice would you give them?

Frankly, if she's admitted that he has feelings for her, that is a huge red flag.

Sorry you're here. Others should pop in soon with more advice.

Ask yourself, how does this

So now I'm thinking shall I ask her if she wants to try and fix things?

Work with this?

I want my self respect and dignity back. I want peace.

If you are dependent on your WSs' answer, then it is unlikely you will regain your dignity, as you will be following the whims and fancies of the WS.

Create a path for yourself out of Infidelity, and if the WS wants a chance at R, then the WS will be following you on the path you have created.

As I told her I want to separate several months ago

...

So now I'm thinking shall I ask her if she wants to try and fix things?

I mean, wouldn't it be easier to just not try to fix things?

DDay 2, shitty efforts after DDay 1.

No sex for almost a year. <- This is enough for divorce without any DDays IMO.

Hi pager,

Welcome! I am sorry to hear your story, but you have found a bunch of people who are on the same journey but are all at different phases. I had a mini-dday in October 2017 (I learned details but didn't really understand the significance at the time), a BIG day in May of 2020 and my divorce was final October 2023. My wayward husband actually didn't want to get divorced, but we still couldn't make it. It was absolutely because he had a character problem that allowed him to prioritize his impulses/external validation over his wife and family. The same character flaw that allowed him to give himself permission to cheat, is the very same character flaw that prevented him from taking a critical look at himself and making the significant changes to his core values. In the end, he kept choosing himself, so I had no choice but to choose my kids and myself.

I was miserable during the entire duration of the so-called "reconciliation". He would say words that sounded like he got it but then would go and do actions that clearly demonstrated that he did not get it. I was so scared I couldn't hack it financially on my own. I thought no one would want me because I would have been divorced twice and have kids that have two different fathers. I was scared to admit that I failed at ANOTHER marriage. All of those things kept me in that relationship longer than I should have stayed.

One day in March (i think) of 2023, I found a stash of empty beer cans in our garage when I was looking for something. He was supposed to be sober because abstaining from alcohol was a condition of our reconciliation. I'm talking like 50-60 empty bud light cans. At the exact moment I knew that my fear of leaving was no longer greater than the pain of staying. I met with my mom, sister and brother and let them know what was going on and they helped me plan. I got everything I wanted in the divorce and I am dating the most incredible, forthright, and considerate man. My life feels COMPLETELY different. My marriage is just a shitty memory and I want that for you too. You are trying to figure out how to save your marriage and I cannot fathom how this marriage/relationship/situation is serving you.

When a WS is abusing substances, the long road to reconciliation is that much longer. Before you can tackle the marriage issues, you have to get to the bottom of the infidelity issues, and before you can tackle the infidelity issues you must deal with the substance abuse issues, and at the center of this onion are the core issues that have predisposed her to cheat and abuse substances, and she can’t get to those issues unless…

SHE really, REALLY wants to. It won’t work if you’re having to drag her along. This has to be HER crusade.

The only impetus YOU should have to contribute is, by providing her the mere FACT that you’re moving on, with her or without her, You. Are. Movin’ Along, steadfastly down the road out of infidelity towards the promise land, with your lawyer leading the way, and if she has any inclination of saving herself and the marriage, she better get after it, she better engage, and her efforts will have to be quite impressive, must outshine the bright future you see before you, because you’re rolling on down this road like juggernaut.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 11:42 PM, Tuesday, September 17th]

I really appreciate every comment. I don't have a support system, no one to discuss it with so that is very helpful.

I confronted her. I was calm and basically said I love her and willing to do a lot to save the marriage but I know about the affair and from this moment do not consider her my wife and she is free to do whatever she wants. I told her I started the divorce process and unless I hear that she wants that marriage and I see real actions I'm just going to continue with that.

Meanwhile I'm waiting for initial IC appointment and reached out to draft a settlment. I also read all material at this web-site and the forum.

My head is a mess now. It is painful as hell. I feel anxious and stressed most of the time, I guess I need some meds.

[This message edited by pager999 at 2:55 PM, Tuesday, September 24th]

Good work.
Now keep in mind that words are only words.
I don’t necessarily see it as important that by noon tomorrow you have hired an attorney, filed and started packing. Divorce is a process, and it takes time. But it’s VERY IMPORTANT that you constantly work on the process. Like tomorrow you might ask her if she wants to move out or if she has some thoughts on the house once you start the D process and so on. When she wants to sit down to make arrangements regarding finances while you coexist as roommates rather than a couple and so on.

Don’t just wait and expect change.

I’m sorry you have been in a declining marriage. You can see the toll it takes on you mentally.

I’d like to make a point - maybe something you have not considered.

Her addiction is winning. That’s her first choice. Addiction to drugs or alcohol or cheating — maybe all 3. Who knows. But she is choosing that over the choice of doing the work and getting her act together.

And that has nothing to do with you. You are, unfortunately, the collateral damage of her choices.

It’s been years and you have watched things decline. You walk on eggshells. You barely have a relationship with your wife.

Honestly I think you have run out of hope. As painful as it is to acknowledge the marriage is over, it would be more painful (in my opinion) to stay married to your spouse for another day.

It’s ok to be the one to initiate the D. Because you really need to move forward and stop living with fear and anxiety and move towards living with peace and calm. You deserve better. Please know that.

How did she react to the confrontation.

Btw, there is no working on the relationship when she is still involved with this other man in any way.

So if she approaches you with a plan to rebuild with you but it includes keeping this other man in her life in any fashion, simply say "thanks, but no thanks", and work to move on without her.

I got the ball rolling. I hope to get that agreement drafted soon so I have something factual to discuss with her.

Addiction is a huge problem and a red flag! I've been trying my best to help her but all it does is just sucking the life out of me. No progress. On the contrary, it has only gotten worse over the years. She shows no desire to deal with the issues and barely even acknowledges it. This is something I've been deeling with before dday2. I was getting support for that issue elsewhere. AlAnon and such.

After confrontation she minimized things, she did not acknowledge the affair, and acted like she hasn't heard that part at all. Said she wants the M. Said she has her own inner issues and she will get back to me to discuss further. Put some blame on M. There was no emotions, like zero, no remorse, no nothing. Like a stone. And she continues to to act that way. It looks like she has no feelings at all. Like she is dead inside. I don't know whether it's consequences of her addiction, as it has changed her quite a bit and she is not the person she uses to be. Or maybe it is antidepressants that she is taking. Or most likely this is just who she has become over those rocky years. Maybe it was always there. Who knows.

NC with OP is a prerequisite for me to even consider starting to discuss anything about our relationship. If OP is on the radar the only thing that happens is D. I'm firm on that.

I deserve better than that. I needed to hear it.

What is she addicted to? Addiction issues add a whole new layer to attempts to reconcile and make it extremely unlikely. They can also mask psychiatric issues that again make it extremely unlikely reconciliation will be successful.

My personal opinion, based on many years of experience in a failed reconciliation, is that unless the WS immediately agrees to do everything needed to reconcile (cut off all contact, complete openness with the BS in all ways, IC, etc) attempts at reconciliation are a waste of time that could be better spent moving your life forward. Given this isn't her first rodeo, and she didn't do everything necessary then and appears she isn't offering to now, my guess is you should continue moving forward without her.

Prepare, however, for others to try and guilt trip you into staying/reconciling. Don't let them.

One of the hardest things for me to get through my brain after the affair, was that my WH still wanted the marriage. Personally, if I were cheating I'd be ready to leave. I would have left already. It just didn't (and still doesn't) make sense to me. We would be ok financially. He would be ok. I would be ok. If he just wanted to leave and f*** around, he'd be fine. I'd be fine. Yet, he wanted the marriage too. I'll never understand. I would have felt miserable in that situation.

I've made my peace that I just think differently. You and your wife probably just do not think the same way. It was a difficult concept for me.

You mentioned 'kid related issues,' how old are your children?

If younger than 18, please start to gather all documentation of her substance abuse addiction and past/current treatments that you can find. You mentioned a settlement agreement? Is this agreement something your attorney has drafted or have you cobbled something that you downloaded off the web and you plan to DIY divorce? I would highly advise you to seek an experienced family attorney to help you through the divorce especially if custody issues are in play and your wife is battling addiction. Turn over all your documentation to your attorney so that he/she can better advise you. Yes, a good attorney will be expensive-- just remember the old joke-- "Why is divorce so expensive? Because it's worth it."

Her drug of choise is alcohol. And I can say it is horrible what it does to people. What is even worse is the unwillingness to acknowledge the seriousness of the problem and start doing something about it. But that is a common thing for this issue.

My kid is 14 and I'm thinking whether to say something about it and what what to say exactly. I probably won't do it till D is in its med to late stage.

I've reached out to a professional and waiting for initial consultation. I can't just download a template from the Internet, this is too complex to DIY

Pager

I have way more experience with addiction and alcoholism than I ever wished to have. Not on a personal level – I’m an infrequent drinker of moderation that hasn’t done any form of drug for nearly 40 years. Where I am in my home-office right now, I have a small fridge and in it are left-over speciality beers from last Christmas... Probably end up pouring them down the drain.

But...
I truly believe that an active alcoholic can NOT fully commit to a relationship. In fact I have seen instances here where I think the WS is having an affair to divert from the fact they are using.
I believe that an active alcoholic can NOT commit to being a safe parent. As a former cop I witnessed too many DUI’s with moms or dads with junior in the rear-seat, went to too many homes with empty fridges and stacked bars.
For the active alcoholic the God is the Next Fix.

If your wife were to commit to sobriety now and do detox and AA and all that... I might suggest you give her six to twelve months before deciding your future relationship. However I also think that you can’t make her do anything, and that if "forced" she will relapse as soon as possible.

What I really want to point out though is the way addiction runs in family’s...
With your WW DNA in your son the odds of him becoming an alcoholic/addict are HIGHER than average Joe jr. next door...

No – it’s not preordained. He can go through life with no addiction. He’s also got your DNA. But the odds of him having an issue are HIGHER than normal. Stats vary, but a guestimate is that on average 10% of the population have addiction issues. If your son had a 1 in 10 chance of being run over on his way to school... would you react?

What many believe and research supports is that the OLDER the children of alcoholic parents start using weed or alcohol or whatever, the less the hereditary link impacts them.
If we break that down into understandable numbers:
Let’s say that the odds of a 12 year old teenager with one alcoholic parent of becoming an alcoholic by the age of 30 is 20%, while the odds of the same child with non-alcoholic parents is under 5%...
If that teenager starts using weed at 15... the odds of addiction might go to 40%, or even 50%...
If that teenager can abstain until 20. When his brain is more developed and his personality and goals in life clearer... it might be down to 10%. Abstain to 22 and it might be 5%...

In short: Don’t hide his moms illness from him. Get assistance from Al Anon or addiction specialists in what, where and how to share with him what’s going on. Not the infidelity bit, but simply her addiction, and the risk having this in the family might place on him.

Both my family and my wife’s have a fair ratio of alcoholics, although neither of us carry that devil. I made contracts with my kids to not smoke or drink to 18 and in return they got good access to my vehicles. I made it clear to them why I wanted this – not so much because of age, but more due to heredity.

Because we have an active alcoholic in our family we all, sibs, parents, children, g’parents have done a ton of research. Please pay attention to Bigger. The logical, moral part of the brain is hijacked by the addiction. This is what the research has shown us. While they are standing there discussing lunch they are either drunk, on their way to being drunk, thinking about hoe to get alcohol and how to keep it hidden from other people. They lie with ease. They steal if they need money and they drive drunk. This is the reality of dealing with an active addict. It takes many months for the brain to recalibrate itself. In the meantime, you will be the family policeman. If she slips one time, it puts her back to square one. I’m sad to say that is your reality because it’s mine and my family’s.
Alcoholics say this prayer, but I think it also is a very good one for families of addicts:

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

I read all the comments and really appreciate them. This web site is gold, I wish knew about it before. I'm learning a lot here. I'll post updates when I have some movements.

Can this be moved to divorce/separation as it really belongs there?

Yes it can be moved. Personally, I think it belongs here in JFO because I think more people will read it here than in D/S, and I think your thread will help others.

You can move yourself to D/S simply by opening a thread there and referring to this thread.

If you still want the thread moved, opening a 'Mod, please' thread is likely to be the quickest way, because I'm about to sign off, probably for the day.

sisoon

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:29 PM, Saturday, September 21st]

Right, I can create a new topic in another sub. No need to move this one.

So my WW continues her affair. It drives me nuts being around her as I know she is lying to my face and communicating and seeing AP regularly. It is really hard to see it happening. But I'm trying to detach from the situation and her as best I can. Today was actually not that bad. I kept myself busy and was on my own most of the day which made me feel much calmer and my mood and anxiety is better. I need to do that more. Unfortunately it is not always possible and I have to be around her.

Since when I confronted her there was no communication between us no one initiates. Sometimes I want to initiate a talk but then stop myself as there is really nothing to discuss with her now. Her actions talk much louder than her lying mouth.