SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

While I have been faithful to my wife for the whole 20ish years we have been together, in my youth I was an AP to my first wife, who left her husband to marry me. As that marriage fell apart, I made out with another woman and left my wife the next day... and had a serious gf after I got divorced who was... married. So 2x AP, and perhaps a days worth of being unfaithful... not sure if that qualifies.

I suspect your former wife’s husband and the other betrayed spouses involved would have considered you wayward. I’m not sure how that works in the forum if you’re wanting to post or respond to something.

Perhaps... I mean I often feel like I have insight I could add, but I am a rule follower at heart so...

I kind of feel it should be that I can't, but that should be more explicit for something that can get you banned from the forums forever. If its a grey area that comes down to how a mod interprets it, that isn't a very comprehensive standard.

That makes sense. I can see why you’d want the distinction to be explicit, especially if it’s something that could result in a permanent ban. I suppose the question is whether the forum defines "wayward" by what you did or by whether you were the unfaithful spouse in your own relationship.

Do you consider yourself wayward? I’m just wondering whether posting in wayward-specific threads is necessarily beneficial if you don’t identify with that side or perspective.

Not for 25 years, but I would argue there may be "waywards" that no longer consider themselves a wayward. Even if the label still fits because they are with the betrayed spouse.

I think there can be a lot of valuable insight that comes from having experienced infidelity from different sides. It does seem like your perspective these days leans more toward the betrayed side, though, and I wonder if that sometimes gives you a different lens than what people are looking for in the wayward-specific discussions.

Or maybe it gives me a little more detached clarity.

Sometimes I can look at an affair and see past a lot of the smoke people throw around it. I can see people trapped in self-loathing, avoidance, reactance, shame, and the thrill of the forbidden, acting out a script that may have very little to do with whether the marriage itself was good or bad.

They do things they never thought they could do, or should do, because the affair is serving some internal function for them. Escape. Transgression. Avoidance. Becoming someone else for a while.

That does not remove responsibility. If anything, I think understanding the machinery makes responsibility clearer.

So yes, my perspective today is heavily informed by being betrayed. But I also think having seen infidelity from more than one side sometimes helps me separate what was actually happening inside the person from the explanations they may initially give for it.

I mean this very respectfully because I do understand what you’re saying, and you obviously have firsthand experience from the other side as well. But there’s a reason the reconciliation and general threads exist. I think many betrayed spouses also develop the ability to look at an affair with some detachment and see beyond the explanations being given for it.

And I say this kindly, but in your recent post on being "capable," I noticed there was a lot of "they" and "them" when talking about what a wayward should do, and not much "I" or "we." I think that may be part of why your perspective reads to me as more informed by the betrayed side, even though you have that past experience from the other side.

Of course, this is more of a mod question.

You’re welcome on my threads.

In my opinion I think you'd qualify. If you were to encounter a thread that has similarities to your situations, for instance, I don't think you'd be out of line to share your experiences with it and offer insight. But I'm just a lowly member with no authority.

BS' can post in the wayward section, just not the threads with stop signs on them. There aren't too many of those, but I'm guessing that's probably what you're asking about. I've wanted to add to a couple of them, too.

[This message edited by Pogre at 2:38 AM, Friday, September 11th]

As a former staff member, it is my understanding that the Wayward Side forum restrictions apply to everyone except those who are wayward in their current or very recent relationships or marriages.

IOW, LittleMonk, you are not considered a wayward spouse, cannot start a thread there, nor reply to a thread with a Stop Sign.

As the attaché – the job-title nobody (me included) really fully understands. Well… it gives me leeway to make staff-deniable comments. Sort of like the legendary "wet-job" operators of the CIA…

From the text on the Main Page before you enter the Wayward forum:

A forum for all Former WS's who have ended or trying to end their affairs and are striving to reconcile.

It’s implied in the forum description that the cheating needs to have been in the present relationship. This is in line with the definition of MadHatters from the Guidelines that state (amongst other things)

Any members that are both a betrayed spouse and a wayward spouse in their current relationship are considered Madhatter

I bolded the current relationship to place emphasis on that part.

What the staff here can’t do is know your past. You can post in whatever forum you want to, but keep in mind that if you post in a STOP sign marked thread, or start a new thread in the Wayward forum we will lock and delete any thread you might start in the JFO forum, and delete any comment you make there. Probably get a nice warning from us too. Ignore the rules enough times and you probably get banned.

Personally – Take some time to contemplate where you think you can do the most good. It’s either with the BS or the WS.

I chuckled a bit at your claim to be a rule-follower after saying you were an ap twice. It's funny how human minds work....

I pretty much agree with Bigger, but I'm not so sure how I'd rule if you posted in JFO or on a STOPped WS post.

You're definitely not a madhatter.

I urge you not to post in JFO. New BSes are very sensitive, and very few really want to hear from former aps.

Madhatters can post on STOPped WS posts from the WS POV, but you're not a madhatter, so .... I ask you not to post on STOPped posts, as an act of kindness to staff! But you probably do have insights that few others have....

There's at least one other restricted thread - BS Questions for WSes in the ICR forum. BSes ask questions, but only WSes are allowed to respond. I suppose if a BS asks a question about aps, your insight as an ap is likely to be useful.

We have had a few aps who found out late that they were aps and who immediately ended the relationships, but that's not your experience, right?

If you want to explore the impact of being a n ap, G is the place to start, IMO.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:15 PM, Friday, September 11th]

The restriction is about the current relationship so for that purpose here doesn’t qualify.

You have been an AP knowingly and willingly, and cheater on your partner before leaving her.

About the human side I see wayward someone who chase validation and dopamine highs outside of a honest relationship, so it’s exploitative, abusive, dehumanizing all garnished with lies and deception.

In my book that’s wayward behavior. Whether you sometimes played the role of the AP and only rarely the cheater, doesn’t make a difference.

Most wayward were AP in their own betrayals anyway.

I chuckled a bit at your claim to be a rule-follower after saying you were an ap twice. smile It's funny how human minds work....

People can change a lot in 25 years... especially when 20+ of that has been living in a mindful way, but I guess take your amusement where you can.

We have had a few aps who found out late that they were aps and who immediately ended the relationships, but that's not your experience, right?

The first time (when I was 20) I had full knowledge. The second (when I was 29), she miss-represented her situation. I however didn't end it right away, but I was the person who ended because of that fact.

I was 19 and in this current marriage then. Had a ONS.

That occurred in 1976. FIFTY YEARS AGO.

Since then, I have not cheated.

My husband, however, cheated with seven different women over the 50 years together.

On this forum, I have been told I cannot post in "Just Found Out" because I’m a wayward, but also cannot post in "Wayward" because I’m a betrayed spouse.

Then some weird "clarification" that I’m a "mad hatter" and I have to be posting as a "wayward" if I respond in the wayward forum and otherwise cannot post there. Baby, it’s been HALF A CENTURY AGO, and there is no part of me that remains of that kid way back before cellphones, the internet, and even pagers didn’t exist.

I quit posting altogether for a time, because what the hell did that mean?

So there is no help here for me when I "just found out", no way to share my experience in the seven instances I have been through, and generally I chime in rarely.