SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thank you both so much for these replies.

​Bruce, thank you for that explanation about the ED medication. Looking at it as the 'price' he had to pay to keep that dopamine hit and validation coming makes a tragic kind of sense. It explains why he put in so much bizarre effort for someone whose looks or personality certainly weren't the prize.

​b3199, your words hit deep. You are completely right—right now, I am trying so hard to make this work while leaving myself entirely vulnerable to ongoing trauma. What you said about my husband's definition of 'reconciliation' being a simple return to the status quo, no matter how much I am suffering, is the hard truth I’ve been wrestling with. He wants the emergency to be over so he doesn't have to face it, while I am left holding the burns.

​The hardest part of this daily reality is that whenever I react to his coldness and indifference, I suddenly become the problem. For the last couple of weeks, he has been completely cold and distant; when I ask him why, he just turns it around and says I am always the angry one, completely ignoring that my reaction is a direct response to his emotional absence.

​The idea of divorce does terrify me, but the thought of living in this endless anxiety and emotional limbo forever is even scarier. Shifting my mindset away from fearing the end of the marriage, and toward refusing to stay in a marriage where he refuses to do the work, is the exact strength I need to find. And I will definitely take your advice to ask The1stWife what her game changer was.

​Thank you both for your kindness, your wisdom, and for keeping me grounded. It means the world.

Hi Pat77,
I'm so sorry you are going through this, it is not fair and you did not deserve it.
I'm here to validate your suspicions of chemical and/or psychological manipulation. I am a person who has experienced something similar. Even if there was no outside chemical drug used on him (although I think it's possible he was drugged) the psychological manipulation is also 100% chemical. Others have mentioned the dopamine addiction an affair can cause. But it takes a special kind of abuse and emotional manipulation to get a person do things they do not want to do, like having sex with someone they are not attracted to, even when there is no physical arousal.
I can't 100% say what the situation with your husband and this other woman was, but I am pulling together some small threads in your story that make me suspect he was manipulated and probably psychologically abused. Do not discount this as an area of exploration.
I'm afraid this post is going to be really long and I don't want to get off in the weeds. But it took a least a year for me to START to tease out what the real story was. Because at first he said it was an emotional affair, but the more we talked I kept getting these "wait/what?" moments of things that just did not make sense. For context my long story short is: We hired a sociopath as an employee in our business. They trauma bonded my husband for entertainment and special treatment. They coerced him into betraying me for leverage. When they were found out they claimed sexual harassment, threatened to sue, tried to extort us (because they had no case). It was extremely difficult to get my brain around because of the trauma (yes, you are probably suffering from PTSD) and he had not yet been able to face the abuse. He had been conditioned in this other relationship to take the blame for everything, and he continued to blame himself for the whole debacle, when really there were plenty of "receipts" to show the manipulation and control this person was after. I have the benefit of having worked with this person as well on a day to day basis, and had some context for many of the incidents, even though they were happening below my radar.
This woman your husband was involved with was a stranger, so there may not be a lot of checking you can do. But I’m pretty confidant based on what you have said that this woman marked and targeted you husband for abuse. I can’t say why she did it but leave open the possibility that she is just a sick person who needs to control others to make herself feel powerful. You said, "It seems she just used manipulation to trap him for a good life", so maybe the motivation was the help he gave her? Was there financial assistance? It doesn’t really matter.
I’d love to say more, but you will need to tease out for yourself what is true and what is an excuse. For our relationship, I have to say there is no excuse for the betrayal (We do not call it an affair anymore). Emotional abuse and manipulation are reasons, but my husband is 100% accountable for not protecting himself, and our relationship from it. It is devastating. But the fact is he was not well, he was batshit crazy – and some of that crazy he did to himself but a lot of it was designed and constructed by this shitty person. When it comes right down to it, we all want to know "How could you do this to me?" For us the only answer that feels true and allows us to continue reconciliation is "I was bat shit crazy".
Last thing, I want to encourage you to get into individual counseling. I don’t think a marriage counselor can help as this isn’t "a relationship issue". It’s a him issue. He did something very wrong and hurtful and you need help healing from that, whether he’s willing to be involved or not, and frankly I don’t think he’s earned the right. I don’t think he is going to be safe until he figures out what happened and takes some ownership of being vulnerable to this attack. If he can get his own counselor and start to understand why he made all these bad decisions and allowed himself to get trapped in this onesided dynamic, there is some hope for your marriage. We have been at it for 3 ½ years and thigs are getting better.

The affair partner knew how to play the game.

She threatened to tell the betrayed wife XYZ unless he did what she wanted.

He was pressured at times but he always had the ability to make a choice to end the affair. Except her threats were very real to him.

So he’s not accountable b/c in his mind "she did it". lol. 😂

Not a good place to be IMO.

Thank you so much, WaxingGibbous for sharing your story and for validating this perspective. What you described about the psychological manipulation and trauma bonding—where a person is coerced or conditioned into doing things completely out of character—resonates so deeply with the confusion I’ve been living in.

​It is so hard for people on the outside to understand how a normal, stoic person can suddenly act like a robot, completely disconnected from reality, just to chase an artificial high or fulfill someone else's control. Your point about how it takes time to tease out the real story—and how those 'wait, what?' moments never seemed to add up—feels so familiar.

​Like you said, even if there was severe psychological manipulation and a sick dynamic at play, it doesn't erase the betrayal, and he is still 100% accountable for letting it happen and failing to protect our relationship. The hardest part right now is that he isn't doing the work to figure out what happened, and instead just wants to sweep it under the rug and blame me for being angry.

​Thank you also for the advice about individual counseling. You are completely right that this is a 'him' issue and a trauma issue for me, not just a standard marriage counseling problem (like we did try but didn't work). Your insight gives me a lot to think about regarding what true safety and healing actually look like. I really appreciate your kindness. 🙏

Hi The1stwife,

That 'lol' says it all! It really is wild how they twist reality to protect their own ego, acting like helpless victims while completely ignoring that they always had a choice.

​By the way, someone mentioned earlier that you navigated a similar phase when your husband was stuck in these kinds of mental loops. What was the turning point or 'game changer' for you when it came to stopping the cycle of trying to lead reconciliation and starting to emotionally detach? I'd love to know how you found the strength to shift the focus back to your own sanity.

Thank you for sharing that!
By the way, have you posted your full story or journey somewhere on the forum? I'd love to read it and see how you navigated getting through this phase.

​

By the way, someone mentioned earlier that you navigated a similar phase when your husband was stuck in these kinds of mental loops. What was the turning point or 'game changer' for you when it came to stopping the cycle of trying to lead reconciliation and starting to emotionally detach? I'd love to know how you found the strength to shift the focus back to your own sanity.

I don't want to speak for The1stWife, but I've seen her talk often about this and it sticks with me because we both used a similar tactic. That was to begin the divorce process. I don't remember how far she got into the process, but I do know she told her husband she'd had enough, and he was free to do what he wanted, but not while remaining married to her. She meant it and he knew she meant it. That was the turning point for them, iirc.

I put up with about a month of my wife's callous behavior and continued contact with her AP before I hit my limit and started calling divorce lawyers and set up consultations right in front of her. Within about a week she had put in for a work transfer (ap was a co worker), blocked him, and rolled her sleeves and began real work on repairing the damage she had done.

I don't want to come across as saying "file or threaten divorce and he'll snap right out of it," because I don't know your husband and some wayward spouses might even double down, but I think if there's a chance to save a marriage sometimes being willing to let it go really works. You want to make sure you really mean it if you do tho. Like I said sometimes a wayward will call you on it and backpedaling could just blow up in your face.

I didn't really want a divorce, but I decided that living in infidelity and uncertainty with a remorseless spouse was worse than divorce. I wanted out of that. She could choose to come with me or not. If she didn't want to follow me out of it then I didn't want to be married to her anymore.

[This message edited by Pogre at 12:46 AM, Saturday, September 12th]

Pogre,

​Thank you for sharing this. Your perspective—and the reminder about what it takes to stop spinning your wheels—really hits home.

​What you described about reaching a point where living in uncertainty and a one-sided "reconciliation" becomes worse than the thought of divorce itself... that is precisely where I feel I am hovering right now.

​Right now, I am completely exhausted. He treats me like a polite roommate—there is no overt fighting, just a chilling emotional distance where he avoids any real contact, refuses the simple steps I asked for to rebuild safety, and turns my pain around by calling it "anger" or "demands." It feels terrifyingly similar to the behavior he exhibited when he was actively stepping out, like he's just waiting for me to get tired enough to break and take the lead on leaving.

​The hardest part is knowing that if I take that step—if I stop leading this charge and genuinely put my foot down—I have to be ready for either outcome. I have to be willing to actually walk away if he chooses to keep hiding behind his avoidance rather than doing the real work.

​How did you manage to quiet the fear when you made that shift? Did you find that your resolve wavered at first, and how did you keep your focus entirely on your own sanity instead of waiting for him to step up?

Thanks 🤗

How did you manage to quiet the fear when you made that shift? Did you find that your resolve wavered at first, and how did you keep your focus entirely on your own sanity instead of waiting for him to step up.

Pat,
This is a rough ride and you are doing as well as anyone can. Be proud of yourself and how strong you are.

We do hard things. But for me, it was when I realized I was more afraid of my relationship staying the way it was more than D. And yes, there was wavering. But D takes time- 6 months or more in many places. So there is time after you file to work through the jitters, and it can be stopped at any point along that way if some miracle occurs and your WS pulls his head out of his @$$. But if he doesn’t get his $h*t together, then at least you don’t have to wait another 6 months or whatever to get free.

As for the focus, that is a great question. Many of us BS were the givers. We were always thinking of the other and put their wants/needs first. Now it is a habit. It takes concerted effort to undo that habit just like any habit. And it is not always comfortable. But you just keep trying and it gets easier with time. Frankly, even if you end R, this is a good thing to do. The dynamic of a new "r’d" marriage needs to be different than the previous one. And if you D, this will help you in your new beginnings and next relationships.

It makes good sense to just get your ducks in a row. Get finances, important documents, etc all together and understand what D might look like. Meet with a few lawyers to make sure you understand what that could look like (facts, not fears or assumptions). This helps reduce the fear of the unknown by making it known. Knowledge is POWER.

And you might get value from the pinned post in the S/D forum on "Fear vs Reality". So many fears never some true.

My therapist told me I would know when I knew. He was 100% right. So get your ducks in a row, watch his actions instead of listening to words, and you will know. Value yourself.

Sending strength and virtual ((((hugs)))). Infidelity sucks.

I think my situation was a little more drastic than yours at this moment. I don't mean to downplay yours tho. The lack of remorse and blame shifting is incredibly painful by itself. Trust me, I know.

While my wife ended the physical relationship, ceased most communications outside of work, and claimed it was a "just friends" situation now, it still felt insincere and she wasn't very remorseful.

I broke down and got into her messages. Her thread with him was set up for auto delete so I couldn't see what was said, but I saw the frequency and more than a few voice chats, some as long as 3½ hours.

She had all of her messages with her friends intact tho, and I read those and discovered that she had lied to me about the depth of their relationship, was still pining for him, and was saying unflattering things about me. What I read that day gutted me. It made my decision much easier. I had decided that if I had to live with someone who was remorseless and lacked basic decency and respect my life was just going to be miserable.

When she got home from work I confronted her about her messages and she tried to downplay them, even knowing I had just read them. I said something very similar to what The1stWife said and told her if she wanted him she could have him and started calling lawyers. She stood there and watched me set up 3 consultations. I was very calm, cool, and resigned, but on the inside I was screaming "FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, STOP ME FROM DOING THIS!"

When I started talking about how we were going to handle the house and looking up real estate agents she broke in a way I'd never seen her break before. She was hysterical. I don't think she thought I'd really do it, but I had reached my limit.

I don't know if you've had that moment yet, but even when I thought we were done and I was making those calls there was a sense of relief and liberation. I was getting out of a horrible situation one way or another. If that meant divorce, then so be it.

From what you're typing it doesn't sound like your husband is remorseful and I think your instinct might be right. He might be waiting for you to pull the trigger so he doesn't have to. If that's the case I'm so sorry that you're in this position, but you have to ask yourself if you're willing to continue living with a coward who doesn't want to be there anyway.

You're not the bad guy here. Even if you initiate a divorce and he tells you its your fault for ending the marriage he's the one who ended it by cheating on you. That's what killed it. Not you for not wanting to be with a remorseless unrepentant cheater.

The old marriage is permanently dead. The only hope is to build a new one on a new foundation built on transparency, trust, and respect. And it will take both if you to do the work of laying that foundation. Otherwise it's just going to be a continuation of the marriage that led to this disaster to begin with. You have to decide what you want, and then stick to your guns, accept your decision, and follow through with it.

BB gave you some great advice above. Starting the divorce process isn't the same as instantly ending the marriage. It takes time and you can pause or stop it altogether if there's a miracle turnaround and he comes to his senses. I think you should at the very least get a few free consultations, if possible, and at least get an idea of what you'd be facing if it comes to it. You don't even necessarily have to tell him you're doing it if you're not ready, and it will take some of the fear of the unknown out of the equation for you.

Sending virtual hugs your way.