SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Update:

On Friday I sent her a letter in an email, and a text letting her know I sent a letter. The letter details essentially the following:

That I need things to change.
That it's difficult to feel like she is a fully safe partner with this constant blaming happening.
That our relationship has been under a lot of stress, and that taking a break will allow that stress to reduce, and hopefully our nervous systems to relax.
That she has work she needs to do, and that I cannot help with or direct this work. It's 100% on her.
That we are taking a four month break from couples therapy.
That we each will be focussing on our own healing and that I'm stepping back from trying to direct reconciliation.
That I'm not giving up on us, we are just taking a break so we can de-stress and work on our own stuff.

I don't believe she has read the letter yet, but I also said in the text that it's not a rush. It's not a rush because I don't require her to agree with me or for us to discuss it even. I'm not sure if she will be happy about it or not. She might be upset that I'm acting unilaterally. Which I get. Or she might feel relief that we can stop stressing about things for a while. I just don't know. Either way I'm committed to the plan.

A couple of interesting observations from this:

- Before sending the letter I was very stressed about it and how she would react. I'm still a little stressed waiting for the blow up actually. But it's interesting to me how dependent my emotions are on hers. I'm starting to notice my co-dependent traits in real time. When she is around, and being kind (which is the majority of the time), I feel relaxed and not angry at her, but the affair is never far from my mind. When she is not around I get to thinking about all the things she did and I start to get angry again. It's such a strange dynamic.

- After I sent the letter, I felt an immediate sense of relief. All weekend I have been more relaxed, and have had more capacity to focus on other things. I play a sport, and performed MUCH better in the sport than normal. So much so that other people noticed and commented. I had more mental room to plan and work on projects that need completing around the house.

- Another thing that I appreciate is I started to feel my confidence and self esteem returning. I didn't realize how low it had gotten. I was walking around all the time with a cloud over my head. Sad about how her choices have affected me, and what those choices mean for the future. That seems to have lifted a bit. Hopefully it's not a fleeting feeling.

- One of the more interesting parts for me is that I have been more relaxed around her. It's been easier to feel relaxed because this big weight of having to figure out the relationship has been lifted. I'm in a watch and see kind of mode now. If I want to do something nice for her, before all this stuff would come up and it would diffuse that feeling. That has subsided quite a lot.

- Another interesting part is that before hitting send, I was having a lot of doubts about if the letter was a good idea. After, it sort of solidified my resolve. I know I am all out of patience for her blaming me. That needs to change for sure, and thats why I wrote the letter. But I didn't expect my resolve to solidify like this.

Overall I can now see what people are talking about with detachment. I don't like it, and wish I wasn't here. But it is already helping for me to stop trying to control her, and stop trying to make her be this way or that way. Instead I think about what I want and what will help me.

In the long run I think this will either help us relax and stop walking on egg shells all the time, or it will reveal that we have different goals for our relationship.

But it's interesting to me how dependent my emotions are on hers. I'm starting to notice my co-dependent traits in real time.

I started to feel my confidence and self esteem returning.

Fantastic! There's no good or healthy reasons to internalize other people's issues. This is a part of detaching - untangling her issues from yours and yours from hers. Keep at it.

Remember, detaching doesn't necessarily include severing the ties that bond. It's about sorting the unhealthy tendencies that lead to dysfunction and f'up dynamics.

Unhinged said:

Remember, detaching doesn't necessarily include severing the ties that bond. It's about sorting the unhealthy tendencies that lead to dysfunction and f'up dynamics.

Well said. One of the better observations I’ve read to describe why detachment is so important.

Theevent wrote:

In the long run I think this will either help us relax and stop walking on egg shells all the time, or it will reveal that we have different goals for our relationship.

Nothing good comes from infidelity — nothing.

However, I loved my path to rediscovering ME.

I learned and relearned what I wanted and needed from life, from myself.

And then I was able to figure out what I wanted from any relationship, not just my M.

When I got my feet back underneath me, I was able to go after what I wanted, regardless of the outcome of my M.

All of that also made me a better partner when the focus was on rebuilding the relationship.

We really do have to be good with ourselves, before we can be good for anyone else.

Same with your WS.

Good stuff. I think if you can do this it will bring more objectivity and clarity. And healing for you.

I hope she rises to the occasion, but this period will make you stronger to deal with it more effectively if she doesn’t. And if she does, I think it will help you move forward better as well. Let us know how it goes!

Have you read "co-dependent no more" yet?

Has she read the letter yet?

Honestly it appears as though she wants to continue to try to sweep things under the rug.

Honestly if my marriage was facing troubles then I would want to know what was in a letter yesterday. I would want to address it immediately (or as soon as practical after giving some things some thought or attention).

I hope your letter has the desired effect and leads to a positive outcome.

OhItsYou

Have you read "co-dependent no more" yet?

Not yet but it is on my list to do so.

The1stWife

Has she read the letter yet?

Interestingly she has not brought it up. But I did log into her email and could see that it was in a read status. I also canceled our couples session on the calendar, and scheduled a time four months from now for us to revisit this topic. She would have gotten both of those calendar events.

I think it's pretty unlikely that she doesn't know whats happening. She would have had to ignore my text message, the original email and two calendar updates. To be fair she does get pretty busy, and tends to ignore a lot, but I don't think thats the case here.

Yesterday she seemed off, and had a strange look on her face when looking at me. Similar to a face she gave me shortly before engaging in her affair. It seemed like she wanted to talk about something. When I asked her about it she played it off as something else. Her being tired, and her back hurt. It looked a lot to me like she wanted to say something but decided against it and chose to use the excuses anyway.

In my text mentioning the letter I said "no rush", and I wrote the letter in a more of a telling you sort of way, not so much in a what do you think about this kind of way. So my guess is she is trying to process how she feels about it, or she is going to continue ignoring it since there really isn't much to talk about.

Before I would have stressed it, and reached out to her within a day or two. But right now I'm in a lets see what happens mode. So I'm okay waiting. It is a little stressful wondering what might happen. However in our normal interactions she doesn't seem angry or unloving. I think she really is just processing.

I also don't want to bring it up because it defeats the stated purpose of the letter which is to de-stress our relationship, and me saying I'm stepping back from controlling things.

Get comfortable with being uncomfortable. You're probably correct that she's processing your sudden detachment, wondering what that means for her. That's her problem, not yours.

Keep focusing on you and your healing. Stay focused. When you wake up each morning, think about what you want to do with the day, how you intend to find your own joy and peace.

Wow!

On one hand, I'd bet a lot you're co-d.

On the other, that letter was a terrific step out of co-d. Great job! You now something about the difficulty og asserting yourself - and some of the rewards.

Don't expect perfection from either your W or yourself. It's hard to change, and it's almost always 2 steps forward and one step back. Or 8 forward and 7 back.

Waiting for your W to step up on her own is another great step. To create a new, good M, you both need to commit for your own reasons. Your W will have to go through her own hell to redeem herself. She'll do it only if she is doing it for herself, irrespective of what happens to the M.

If she doesn't do her work but you do yours, D is likely, but so is a good life for you. I know that's not what you want, but, if it's the best you can do, so be it.

If she chooses to do the work for herself, and you do your work for yourself (process your pain and drop your co-d), R is likely.

Your update say you've taken a big positive step towards building a great M or a great life. Cellebrate, bro. Celebrate.

I do applaud you for not studying too hard on her reaction. That would like you said be the opposite of what you are trying to do.

My husband always had these conversations with me outloud. I am more like you, I tend to want to write something out and organize my thoughts. Sometimes I do that before having conversations.

I am a little like 1st wife, baffled by the lack of response.

But, you understand your dynamic best. Perhaps you knew giving her a letter gives her a chance to process it better than if it was a conversation.

Things have moved on since I last caught up on the thread, but I did want to call one thing out, which could yet be useful in four months' time:

I could be very explicit with my requests. I could make a list with items like like:

"No more blaming me for past relationship issues"

But she has an answer for everything, and she would just say "this relationship feels one sided. I'm helping you with your issues and you aren't helping me with mine".

Don't let her frame this as "helping" you with "your" issues; she blew up the marriage and it is you who is helping her with fixing that.

Unhinged

Get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Good point. Really I have been uncomfortable for two years. Now it's just a different kind of uncomfortable I guess.

When you wake up each morning, think about what you want to do with the day, how you intend to find your own joy and peace.

This is the plan. I will still continue to live as normally as I can. Still pay attention to her and do things like go on dates, family events, vacations, etc. My plan is to really de-stress our relationship so we can have more productive conversations.

In writing that letter though, I was finally able to internalize that she might be unable or unwilling to change. That her stubbornness and constant accusations might be her real beliefs that she doesn't intend on changing. Rather than me viewing her as someone who is a victim of her poor habits and poor thinking, FOO issues, etc. I started to view her as someone who is the way she is, and me trying to change her as futile. If thats the case, if we are fundamentally incompatible in our beliefs, then we might actually each be happier going our own separate paths. Maybe her stress and sensitivity are because of her pushing against her beliefs by trying to reconcile. I just don't know.

I know thats not the path I prefer to take. I know I still love her and want to live a long happy life together. But if that requires me to continue the way things are now, then I'm not on board.

sisoon

Waiting for your W to step up on her own is another great step. To create a new, good M, you both need to commit for your own reasons. Your W will have to go through her own hell to redeem herself. She'll do it only if she is doing it for herself, irrespective of what happens to the M.

This is a point I'm considering making to her in four months time. She seems to have the attitude that the work she does to help me feel safe and heard is her doing me a favor. But in reality the change I have been asking for from her is that she change her core self because she wants to, rather than doing things just to make me happy. I think this is one of the core issues she still has. She views this as unfair to her, rather than the path she needs to take if she wants to reach that destination.

Cellebrate, bro. Celebrate.

hikingout

I am a little like 1st wife, baffled by the lack of response.

But, you understand your dynamic best. Perhaps you knew giving her a letter gives her a chance to process it better than if it was a conversation.

I too think it's kind of strange she seems to be completely ignoring the letter. It makes me worry that she is building up until one day it's just going to explode out at me, or if she took it as a "we don't need to discuss this" type of thing and is just going to try and relax these four months. I just don't know. I hope it's the second option.

One thing I do know is she is hyper sensitive right now, and defensiveness pops up quite easily.

For example:

The other day she was asking me about some comments I had made months ago about a bracelet. Long story that I won't go into here. But essentially she asked me a question, then in the midst of me answering her question she started defending herself about the bracelet. I stopped answering and made sure she wanted me to continue since she seemed to be going another direction. She said I should continue. Then after a bit she started bringing things up that that weren't even part of this conversation at all, and started accusing me of things like not caring how she felt etc.. Completely unrelated to the very calm way I was answering the question she asked me.

I usually prefer to write a letter to order my thoughts, and then sometimes I can say it verbally or sometimes I need to give her the letter. It's also because the pattern has been her getting super defensive and lashing out with criticism when I try to do it verbally, and then I'm frustrated because I am unable to communicate what I was trying to communicate because now I'm stuck defending myself against her attacks. A letter helps with that.

In this case with her being super sensitive, I wanted to drop all of my thoughts at once without getting redirected by her defensiveness, and I wanted to allow her time to process them without in person triggering that seems to be happening.

limerickence

Don't let her frame this as "helping" you with "your" issues; she blew up the marriage and it is you who is helping her with fixing that.

Thats a good call out, and I am formulating a strategy on the way I'm going to approach this.

Well regardless of her not responding, you are getting more of what you need from doing this and I think that’s the only control you have anyway.

I do think when my husband stopped "babysitting" me, and I don’t mean that in any way against him, but when he went slack he didn’t say anything at all at first.

I finally had to confront the situation and did such a poor job that it escalated into in-house separation and him wanting us to fill out divorce papers. Which we did and didn’t file them ultimately.

If it’s at all any comfort because neither of us know what direction your wife will take this is when I stopped trying to get an A in reconciliation and knew that I needed to take responsibility for myself.

In many ways it forced me to let go of the outcome of our marriage. And that provided an epiphany that I had been unknowingly trying to control his perception and the outcome. It made me do an about face and go in a different direction that was ultimately helpful.

I don’t mean to say that to infuse hopium. I am telling you that because I believe a lot bs come to terms with their ws may or may not change, and this can be a lot more effective in making that determination. Sink or swim time so to speak.

She is not ignoring she is likely avoiding while assessing.

I don’t want to influence you if you’re stepping out of codependency so don’t worry about what I write here, try to think of it in a detached way and pure speculation.

You communicate an important message to her.

She is gauging out just how likely it might be is genuine or if it’s a performance or a testing her (from her perspective because she’s likely to behave in this way with you, in the past and probably know, managing, not opening)

It might be that she is assessing and weighing her options, likely she will search first for an escape route or plan because that’s her past pattern.

The confrontation is scary for it requires honesty and consequences. Something that requires healing or the drive to begin healing at the very least.

My friendly suggestion from how I read it.

Soft 180.

You spoke, said what you needed.

Now focus back on your self, ignore her reactions because they don’t matter. You want a response not a reaction.
Live your life with her as a roommate lightly and naturally.

It’s not worth your time. Her reaction is not worthy. You want responses not reactions anymore.

Live here and now and enjoy the lightness of having said what must be said.

That was your first step in reclaiming agency.

Now the ball is not in your park and even if you don’t see that ball again you are good, forget about it already and focus on what matters.

You. Life. Now.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 9:47 AM, Wednesday, June 17th]

Friend. I came this thread cold and read your posts then went back to your earlier posts. You paint a very bleak picture here and the outcome is not looking good. To sum up, she robs you of all agency and you did the pick me dance. 6 mos in and she is still following the OM on media and admits that she is doing to keep her options open. IC bust. MC bust. Reading books and articles bust. Going to SI bust. Talking one on one bust.

Everything is just fine until you let her know you hurt and she goes into DARVO mode and even has suggested D.

This has gone on for two years. You grope for hope when she does something cosmetic like sending you a note or calling you to talk instead of the OM. (I had to read that more than once to make sure I wasn’t crazy). BUT she loves you!

So now your last ditch idea is to not talk about it at all and stuff your feelings. To what end? She is not going to have an epiphany. She is not going to change. I am not even seeing any real remorse.

What she demands in every way is that you spend every day pretending that she is the injured party and you had better shape up to whatever version of you she wants. Whatever version of life this is, it’s not R.

You really need to think outside the box. Take a deep look inside. How long do you deny yourself your basic right to take back the power in order to keep her happy. What message are you sending her now if not that you will do anything to maintain the peace. That is not dealing from strength.

Does she want to stay in a marriage where you are whole again? She sure acts like she is content to keep you silent and hurting. Isn’t that sadism?

I know no marriage can be judged by a few posts from one party, but if it’s true she is actually saying that she cheated (for a year) because you forgot her birthday once, or don’t pick up after yourself enough, or don’t meet her standard idea of what a husband should be and that made her soooo unhappy that her solution was inevitable, then she is no candidate for R.

Finally, I got to say that your statement about the year she was in her A to have been one of the better years of your M to be very concerning. It speaks of off the charts manipulation. Which is what I see now.

longsadstory1952
Wow. I'm impressed. Thank you for taking the time to read through this long thread, as well as my previous posts.

I know no marriage can be judged by a few posts from one party

I tend to get on here when I'm struggling, so my posts might paint a more negative picture than it really is. I also could be the proverbial frog in boiling water unaware of how hot it's really getting. This is why I have been going through my journals from the past two years trying to give myself some perspective. I will also go through my posts to refresh myself. I could be missing something for sure.

I do agree with a significant portion of what you say. Depending on the glasses I use to view the situation it could look very negative or less so. But either way there is a problem that needs to be dealt with. Thats why I once again came here.

To sum up, she robs you of all agency and you did the pick me dance.

Yeah I'm not proud of this part. I think many BS's feel bad about doing this later when it dawns on them what exactly the WS did. That took me longer than it should have because my therapist was going the Gottman rout and encouraged me to do what I could to bring positivity to the relationship. It did do that, but it also put me in a bad position. It validated her beliefs, and rewarded poor behavior. But hey it added positivity so thats something!

Let me clarify a few things though:

You grope for hope when she does something cosmetic like sending you a note or calling you to talk instead of the OM.

Not quite what I meant when I said that. What I was referring to was during her affair, she would say drop the kids off at school, and call OM on the phone afterwards. She would call him when she needed to bounce ideas off of or was excited about some business thing. Now she does that with me to some degree. I was NOT saying she was still in contact with OM, that would be completely unacceptable for me.

...but if it’s true she is actually saying that she cheated (for a year) because you forgot her birthday once, or don’t pick up after yourself enough, or don’t meet her standard idea of what a husband should be and that made her soooo unhappy that her solution was inevitable, then she is no candidate for R.

I think this is simplifying it a bit. I believe she believes that the affair was wrong, but that the conditions in our marriage are what led her to be unhappy enough to seek an affair. She has said she didn't handle her unhappiness right, but that it was real unhappiness that she was suffering from, and that some of that is my fault.

That last part is the part that I have a hard time with and why I'm on this thread. I'm just tired of being blamed. I disagree with her interpretation of events, and I think it's insulting, and inappropriate for her to be blaming me at all considering her role in the situation.

It's like being upset at how I painted a room, and instead of talking to me about it she lights the house on fire. Her reacting the way she did, in my mind, removes most of her standing to complain about these issues. She doesn't get to complain about the paint job when the home is a smoking ruin.

So now your last ditch idea is to not talk about it at all and stuff your feelings. To what end? She is not going to have an epiphany. She is not going to change. I am not even seeing any real remorse.

I am not stuffing my feelings here, or sweeping things under the rug. I am giving our relationship a chance by reducing the stress level under the hopes that she will be more relaxed and able to have productive conversations rather than getting super defensive. My theory is that she is extremely sensitive and feels like she is doing a lot constantly trying to manage how I feel. By allowing some time to rest, she can have that energy back to work on herself which she says she is doing in therapy. Time will tell. Either way I am tired of trying to manage this situation so I need a break.

Also it allows me to take a step back and do the exact evaluation that is happing here. It allows me to seek help in other ways such as a different therapist that can help me work on identifying how things really are, and help work on my co-dependency. I can read books, and just take some time to really get a good view on things. I want to be sure I see the situation as clearly as possible so that when the times comes I can make good decisions. This is why I appreciate yours and everyone els's posts. It helps me get perspective that I might not have.

Does she want to stay in a marriage where you are whole again? She sure acts like she is content to keep you silent and hurting. Isn’t that sadism?

I think as others have pointed out that she is afraid to really look at herself. I think she gets defensive and lashes out at me in self defense because she cant bear to view herself as the bad guy in this situation. I don't think it's malicious.

Finally, I got to say that your statement about the year she was in her A to have been one of the better years of your M to be very concerning. It speaks of off the charts manipulation. Which is what I see now.

You could be right. If so I doubt I would be able to see it. I was just coming out of a very low time in my life, and her libido shot sky high. She seemed really happy. She was kind of glowing like people do when they are in love for the first time. This year we got along really well. Too bad it was all an illusion. A carefully propped up facade.

I would like to hear from others on this topic? Is everyone else seeing this view as well? Am I the frog in boiling water here?

I would like to hear from others on this topic? Is everyone else seeing this view as well? Am I the frog in boiling water here?

I’m never good at predicting how open someone else’s WS work is going to go.

However, I don’t think you’re in a slow boil.

You wrote the letter to set your current boundaries, you have taken a step back and the first step for really standing up for you. To me, it means you are aware of your surroundings and looking for ways to heal more.

I think your wife dictating terms and hating the SI method of her owning her choices and helping the M heal — some red flags for sure.

I don’t think she is manipulating you in the moment, but she is avoiding the work to make you feel safe about staying around, and trying to point out easier paths (the whole lumping infidelity in with other poor coping mechanisms and moving on already plan).

I do agree with others that it may not be a good sign that she hasn’t brought up your letter at all.

Avoidance is another red flag to me.

I also think you have seen some of the signs of her deception during the A, you do know what some of those manipulations look like. So, again, I don’t think you’re the frog. It ain’t paranoia if you’ve already been hurt already. I doubt your flight or flight thinking will shut down anytime soon, unless your WS takes greater ownership of the pain she caused.

The thing that stands out to me about her not saying anything about your letter is that this is like her CORE issue.

She was mad at you for not taking her on enough dates, but didn’t mention it, and you, not being a mind-reader never figured it out. That festered into a simmering resentment that she carries with her to this day.

From your post on her "whys":

She is avoidant by nature and when she is not sure she keeps quiet. After a while it builds up and comes out sideways.

So it looks to me like this is happening again.

This is what she’s supposed to be working on in IC, right?