SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Listened to the audiobook and ordered a copy for WS not arrived.

Seems helpful. It's very frustrating to have to help WS "get it". She says she's scared to do the wrong thing. Next MC (with infidelity specialist is). I am torn between telling her what to do and telling her nothing. My job is to focus on healing which I am doing rigorously (grounding + journalling).

One thing I've come across (because I haven't made any sort of decision about the long term) is to write an "exit log" to capture every time I feel like leaving and a "partner accountability log" to capture when she does repair activities. This is to help me evaluate in the long-term what she has done and whether I feel it is sufficient.

However, I'm still within 90 days so I have no expectations for feeling better any time soon. The grounding / journalling is supposed to help so I'm just focusing on the routine.

One issue I really struggle with is "dead time" where my brain has nothing to focus on naturally. Then the rumination kicks in. I'm using podcasts, etc. to help with that and mediations / hypnosis stuff to help me sleep.

If you spell out everything you want the WS to do, you never truly know if they are just going through the motions of what’s expected of them so they don’t lose their lifestyle.
I would give her the book and then nothing else. Pay close attention to what she does from that point forward. That will tell you all you need to make a decision. Don’t rush yourself. Take however long it takes you.

I am torn between telling her what to do and telling her nothing.

My reco is to tell the MC just that. If the MC can't help you, maybe they're the wrong MC for you.

To me, honesty is the single most crucial element in R. Both partners need to be honest - even brutally honest - with themselves and each other. One of the ways that played out was that I asked for what I wanted and expected W to do the same. I did not expect my W to read my mind, and I didn't think I could read hers. I didn't even think that we could read each other's non-verbals ('body language'). A lot of honesty was necessary for us to recalibrate our reading of non-verbals.

I asked a lot of my W. She didn't have to say 'yes' to every one of them, but the ratio of 'yeses' to 'noes' was an indicator of how well we matched, bc we couldn't R unless we fit together pretty well.

So I'm for being explicit about what one wants.

But I knew I wanted R. I wasn't sure what I would do, but I knew what I wanted. IMO, one's thoughts are indicators of one's wants. IMO, to say nothing about what you want will hinder R - but maybe wanting to say nothing is an indicator that you really want D. The task is to figure out what you really want, whatever that is - and then to figure out how to get as close to it as possible.

I think your ideas of logging your thoughts will help you decide/figure out what you want. My reco is to log the times you have thoughts about wanting to stay as well as the thoughts about wanting to leave. Keeping track of your thoughts may be enlightening.

Thank you both. Sisoon's post feels right for me at the moment, while ohitsyou articulates a significant concern of mine.

Part of my a planned pproach is to tell her my pain / triggers / concerns and then put the onus on WS to try and solve for those (but we have to agree on the actions). Some things I will prescribe but others I am okay to collaborate on.

As sisoon says, her willingness to engage in my issues will help me. I have to say a big part of me wants R but not at any cost and right now I can't really see a path through the darkness but it's early days (day 55?).

If you spell out everything you want the WS to do, you never truly know if they are just going through the motions of what’s expected of them so they don’t lose their lifestyle.

That is a giant concern, or should be, for anyone contemplating R.

One of the difficulties in R is that it takes time to find out if it will work. It's probably easy to fake it for 6 months and probably much less easy to fake it for 2 years. Personally, I didn't think of myself as healed or R'ed for 3.5-4 years.

I think the only way to resolve the question is to monitor one's partner and oneself for evidence. My W hasn't lied since the day before d-day. (Revelation of the A came as we were waking up and talking before actually getting out of bed.) We've both said 'yes' to the vast majority of requests. We've both given and accepted support when we're down. We resolve disagreements amicably. Etc., etc., etc.

Consistent behavior over time is all we can rely on. But in any case, to R one has to accept the risk that one's partner may be faking it.

Sisoon - How do you feel about A now? How do you feel about WS and your relationship in general? I am terrified all this work will just leave me unhappy and resentful in my twilight years.

I think however for R to be successful that you look at A as a problem you had and worked through and nowthings are good, if not great.

I recognise that this is all very raw now and I feel better today than a month ago but still... I have my doubts. I guess you said it was 3-4 years for full healing.

Your WW’s repeated betrayals— over a thousand days since 2022—show a deep-rooted pattern and her preference for her boyfriend over you. Her emotional spirals and breakdowns feel like self-preservation, not genuine remorse. What’s fundamentally changed in her core, not just her words or actions, over these months? Her continued tie to the community, linked to her APs, suggests she’s not truly committed to change.

Her volatility—crying, isolating, then bouncing back to activities—points to avoidance, not change.

Not sure that is very helpful Sharkman. I fully understand the extent of her betrayal and using terms like 'boyfiend' feels intentionally triggering.

This is all I have thought about for the last two months. I don't need help getting worse about it. I am focused on healing and sorting myself out.

WS has her own shit to sort out and fix a warped world view that allowed her to do what WS did in the first place. Even keeping AP around after the romance fizzled of is monumentally f**d up and deeply offensive.

Whether I decide to stay is entirely up to me and I will decide what I do on my own timeline. My journalling etc. has ramped up with more structure and I'm learning more about my injury here and what I have to do. I don't have the capacity right now to handle the disruption of separation and managing the trauma to my children at the same time.

Sorry about that, I didn’t mean to trigger.

Following this thread, thought I would post the shit sandwich original post. Sadly there isn't a search function on this site, that I could find - instead used Google and this pops up.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/635313/the-shit-sandwich-analogy/

You know, it’s not so much that the WS do exactly what the BS wants, in every way. I’m sure, on her own she would get somethings right and somethings not so much right. My more important bellweather would be effort. If she’s not putting in MUCH more effort towards you than her APs, then really, what is better evidence that you’re absolutely the second choice backup plan?
All of us at one time or another had that one coworker who was just stupid as shit. Always made mistakes and just couldn’t get it. Sometimes they make up for it in effort. Not complaining and just trying and trying again til they got it right. We all have sympathy for that person, and wanted to help them get it right yeah? It’s not the same here, but I’m sure you get where I’m going with that. The employee who could never get it and still bitched and moaned? Those are the ones who we either hoped would get fired, or helped get them fired.

Thanks Sharkman - appreciate it.

WS is embarrassed and feels a lot of guilt/shame. MC (infidelity specialist) requested WS hold off IC for now to avoid interference and mixed messages about what to do (has seen IC "empower" some WS to do what they want, carpe diem, be your true self etc).

I bought the Linda McDonald book which she read the same day.

Ultimately actions speak louder than words, so we'll see what she does. She is taking positive steps albeit slowly. I think this is why there was such forceful feedback for me to focus on my own healing. You can't rely upon WS to do it for you (though if the want to help and can, that's a bonus).

I’m really big on people accepting and acknowledging their blame, and in doing so without any "however" or "but" in their excuse. Like if your wife says "I acknowledge my affair was wrong and totally on me BUT you could have been more attentive" then that’s no excuse in my book. It has to be totally "I did wrong. It is totally on me. Whatever made me think this was a great idea is totally MY fault and I should have dealt with it in another healthier way."

I think you might be a bit off from getting that complete excuse. That level of accountability. But I do think you can get there eventually... I think your MC is spot-on.

I think ALL marriages have to realize that there is only ONE thing holding it together. That ONE thing is that at any given moment both of you want to remain married.
It’s enough that one of you decides out. You can divorce her despite her objections and vice versa.
Of course, the decision to get married and the decision to remain married, and therefore the decision to NOT remain married aren’t comparable to a decision between blue or black socks. It’s a heavy decision and you can’t switch between your options on a whim.

I mention this because sometimes people behave as if they don’t have options. I can imagine your wife goes to MC with an attitude that she has to go there. Well... I think it can help A LOT if she is clear on that she does have an option... She CAN leave the marriage.

Just like you have the option that if you don’t sense you two are moving out if infidelity, you can leave the marriage.
Neither of you is stuck in this marriage.

This might sound counterproductive to save a marriage, but the way I see it is that if you realize how delicate or fragile something is you might start taking better care of it. Like you would think differently if you had to carry an egg rather than a golf-ball across town.

I guess you both view divorce as some life-threatening event with some serious economic deprivation and leading to your kids emotional destruction, drop-out of school and eventual drug-usage. In fact – people survive divorce, and kids are generally fine if the parents are sensible in the divorce.

Don’t get this wrong – I am not suggesting you file or threaten divorce. It’s a bit like putting on your seatbelt before driving. Don’t do that with the goal of driving into a wall.
It’s rather that it might be a good idea for you both to realize that getting to the bottom of her infidelity, her why, her reasons, the truth you (might) need, the accountability... all this can move both of you closer – or further – from the point where one does not want the marriage. It can create the base from which you two can create a good marriage.

Generally – her reluctance to reach these milestones could erode your will to be married, and if she truly thinks she would be forced in dealing with these issues it could erode her will to be married.

It’s my honest belief that IF she were to realize what’s at risk then she would be willing to work towards what’s needed, and that work – if done with a professional MC – can improve your communications and teach you tools to better understand each other. Or... it can lead you quicker to what would be an inevitable decision to divorce.

That's a great post Bigger. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Part of my process is writing down the impulses to leave and time I really want to stay. These are part of moving towards a "final" decision at some point in the future. I have told her this and that she needs to fill out up with reasons to stay.

Working through my triggers is going to identify stuff she needs to repair (includes stuff like "you decided it was okay to lie and be unfaithful and i need you to address through ic whatever led you to think that was okay) and even then it might not be enough.

She had said sobering long the lines of "I was unhappy but that's no excuse" which isn't perfect but could be worse.

Next MC this afternoon. Will see what happens.

Oooooh. So screwing her boss for three years fixed her unhappiness, so that’s ok then. This woman has a long long way to go in the empathy journey.

Your remark about your twilight years hit me. Friend you have 40 more years to build a life without an anchor around your neck.