SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi all,

So still trying to work out my stuff and realising the mess that is my head!!!

This last week my BS has simply reached a point where she is stuck with trying to get me to see my errors and my way of thinking etc and is trying to work on herself now (something I am pleased about finally) rather than trying to get me to change or see my ways.

I think for a long time now I have been trying to ensure I stick to all the requirements my BS has requested of me, even applying pressure on myself to ensure I show her that I have what is needed.

These last few days I have been a little woeful, we aren't communicating well and I've been feeling like a victim of sorts in that she is giving me the cold shoulder and not really indulging me in what a marriage should be like or that I'm accustomed too (that sense of loss again).

This leads me to today, we had a convo this morning about how I feel she is being cold and distant despite me trying to facilitate chit chat...it led to her to trying to explain that this is now just the marriage we have (again the loss) and that I was just being entitled... I naturally allowed myself to get petty and upset and made a stupid remark about just being a taxi for her.

Anyway I am at the gym, thinking to myself why this keeps happening and why I am so upset which results in frustration and pettiness

I realised because of the pressure I am putting on myself and my ability to still not be able to just let go and just roll with the punches its causing me to stress and live in this state of hyper vigilance.

In my mind it feels if I am not trying to make this a constant ie talking about the A or trying to check my behaviour then I am going to upset her and cause further problems furthermore if we dont talk about it how is she going to know I am still trying to do the work....therefore I can't switch off when she is struggling and just needs comfort which I then dont provide as I am too busy trying to convince her!

In my head I sit here and i know what I want to do and how I need to do it. I can literally visualise it ...be a good person, be supportive, be attentive and despite what is happening just be present and there for her. I even sit back and think I got this because I just want to be me again (minus the shittiness) so why is it that I can't just not be a penis at times and not snap back or not make it about me??

IC has so far been useless so has anyone any advice or some good books on how to work on this?

Getting back to the gym this last week helps mentally and we are both doing more to tend to our health so I hope this can have an impact....

I hope that makes sense....its taken over an hour and twenty to write this and even I feel confused

How about Born to Win by Muriel James and Dorothy Jongeward? It looks like you can get it via free download, if you don't want to spring for the book itself.

Drama Triangle - you can find a goodly number of readable/downloadable documents at https://karpmandramatriangle.com/. Karpman was the first to describe the Drama Triangle, and he has a lot of good stuff to say about relationships.

What are your goals in therapy? I've done several bouts of therapy in my life. Therapy worked when I identified the changes I wanted to make and found someone willing and able to help me.

If you are not comfortable with your therapist or you feel like he or she is not a good match for you then find somebody else. And if that doesn't work find somebody else. Keep switching until you find somebody that you can work with but you need to make sure the therapy isn't working because you won't let it

Your wife is going to have good days and she's going to have bad days and all you can do is roll with it. She might have a good mood one minute and a bad mood the next minute and again you just have to roll with it if you are committed to fixing the relationship that you broke

Becoming defensive is one of the worst things you can do. I know it's hard to not become defensive but you just have to swallow it

So I have been through 3 different people now and quite honestly each have had different views and thoughts on how they could help....but it is varied and really quite pointless.

They have all been goal focused but I just feel that they are really poor at their jobs and I have had more insight from speaking to my BS.

The last one I sacked off as I spent probably about 5 mins in silence with her after she just didnt know what to say it was rather amusing but at the same time quite frustrating.

I really do at times feel like Jekyll and hyde .....

Are you expecting the IC to tell you what to do? If so, you're doomed to failure. A good IC can do no more than help you figure out what you will do.

Also, Eric Berne wrote that most therapy clients choose the 2nd best therapist - because they're not sure they want to change. Does that apply to you? (True question - I don't mean to point you in one direction or another.)

What is one thing you want to change about yourself? My reco is to find an IC who is willing and able to help you make that change. I'd start with telling an IC that you want help to stop beating yourself up. If you stop doing that, you'll probably have a lot of energy available to change into what you want to be.

I know it's scary to give up habits of a lifetime. My experience, though, is that the less I beat myself up, the more I act in ways that make me satisfied with my behavior and the easier I am to live with. Life is a lot more joyful, too, when I don't beat myself up.

Unfortunately the IC isnt chosen by me as it's done through my employer.

I'm not expecting them to tell me what to do at all, the last one tried that and told me to do breathing exercises when I feel upset or angry which is fine....but doesnt help when I feel the proverbial poop is hitting the fan...

The first one I had did unlock some childhood stuff for me which made me realise my people pleasing and the need for validation stemmed from my parents relationship....after that it just seemed to turn into talking weekly about my situation rather than trying to help me.address anything.

The self bashing is probably accurate, I have a few things I want to change and these are not behaviours I want to keep displaying or not change.....I hate the person I have seemingly become in the last two years, I know I have some good attributes since all this happened but my god I have also become an asshole so any work that is needed to change than I absolutely shall undertake that!!

I think for a long time now I have been trying to ensure I stick to all the requirements my BS has requested of me, even applying pressure on myself to ensure I show her that I have what is needed.

Just be aware that your thinking right now is almost like that of a child trying to please a parent by showing them how "good" they are being. The thing, our spouses didn't marry us because of our ability to do what they tell us to do. What they love and respect is WHO you are. Are you the loving, confident, funny, caring, humble person they married? How do you handle yourself? Do you respect yourself and others? Are you honest? Are you decent? Are you giving, vulnerable?

At the end of the day, many WS's fall into this trap of "trying to do right thing that will make my spouse love me again" but it simply doesn't work that way.

You have to love yourself first. You have to be a loveable person for another person to love you, and that starts with you.

So I ask you this, in response to your quote above... what are YOUR requirements of you? What do YOU need in order to feel like a good, decent and worthy person at the end of the day? What makes you respect yourself?

Absolutely agree DD, this is my point entirely and something I've finally come to realise albeit somewhat a little too late.

So I ask you this, in response to your quote above... what are YOUR requirements of you? What do YOU need in order to feel like a good, decent and worthy person at the end of the day? What makes you respect yourself? crying

I recognise it is needed for me and not for her. I also understand and recognise how my past behaviours have led me down this path so am actively try to avoid a repeating the same mistakes (excluding the defensive and argumentative nature...that still is something I need to grip.)

For me, I do at times feel I can get to a place of loving myself and valuing what it is I bring to the family. I know I am a great father despite what I have done and I know what sense of joy my children bring me and what my love means to them. Do I think I deserve my BS totally not, she is a blessing and I've taken a giant dump on her and have shown her what a spleen I can be but I am beginning to see what you mean and I do want to value and respect myself and hopefully she can too one day.

To summarise mind, for me to be that good person it is to be:-

Calm
Empathetic
Understanding
Respectful
Loving
Honest
Humble
Hard working

The last two years has stripped me of these points especially the honesty and especially the understanding and the empathy but I can now only move forward and need to stop clinging onto misguided beliefs

The last two years has stripped me of these points especially the honesty and especially the understanding and the empathy but I can now only move forward and need to stop clinging onto misguided beliefs

Yeah, honestly, you can't be any of those things and still have an affair, because affairs require betrayal, dishonesty, selfishness and cruelty among other things. Somehow it doesn't seem to feel that shitty while you are in the middle of it (what we some call "the fog"), however, once you start to pull your head out of your ass and become human again, these things end up haunting us. And to be fair, that self-disdain never goes away 100%. What we did is a chapter in our lives that we can't rewrite or change, and so we have to learn to live with it. In order to "carbon offset" our self-hatred, the path forward is to consciously focus on being someone you are proud of being. It takes time and a lot of effort, as well as a great willingness to fail 1000 times and still try again. But the work is worth it. At the end of the day, whether your marriage survives or not, you still do this work, because if you don't, you will continue to suffer, and everyone in your life will too.

If you don't mind a suggestion, I would take that list above (write it down and put it in your pocket if you need to) and that make an effort to cross off at least one of those items each day by doing something that fits that category. (And don't try to do them ALL. That's too much unreasonable pressure. You are seeking progress, not perfection.)

You can do something as simple as hold a door open for someone else, or letting that asshole that cut you off on the road simply go on his way without paying another thought to them. Listen to another person tell you about their day, and instead of thinking of responses about yourself, think of questions you can ask them about their day, their feelings, their upcoming plans. Offer to help someone. Whatever you do, the important part is give yourself credit, even if it feels silly to do so. Your goal here is to replace the negative image of yourself, and instead, focus on the fact that you are now someone new, someone better, someone who is not only making an effort, but showing progress, and the way you measure that, is by giving yourself a break and acknowledging your successful efforts, no matter how small. Over time, it not only becomes more natural to be honest, giving and empathetic, but you also notice that some of those internal voices that tell you "you suck" will be replaced by "You did okay today, good job".

Keep coming back and sharing your progress and challenges. We've all been in your shoes. Our goal isn't to judge, it's to help guide you, especially in places where we all tend to struggle or fail. I know this hurts, and it sucks, but you are not alone, and it does not have to define you for life. Time to start a new chapter in the book of you. You get the write the ending any way you want. So hop to it.

[This message edited by DaddyDom at 4:13 AM, Sunday, September 22nd]

Just want to say thanks DD, you are right and I think I was trying to reach perfection rather than recognise this is a long road.

I'm fortunate that in my work i get to show many of those traits but it's a nice idea and one that I will consider moving forward.

I have failed 1001 and times by now but I will get there, determined to!!

Thanks

I'm working with my IC on taking pauses before I snap to responses. She gave me CBT worksheets about recognizing triggers, core beliefs, thoughts, bodily sensations, emotions, and behaviors associated with them.

DD, I like your idea about writing those attributes down and trying to do behaviors each day that fit them. A challenge for me, because this has been a long time habit, is building some of these attributes largely from scratch instead of returning to them, but I am trying.

[This message edited by PleaseBeFixable at 11:03 PM, Tuesday, September 24th]