SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Update as of 9/20. I gave her a list of things I wanted to know, and to be in writing. No need to get in to the details, but all were specific and should have been answerable. She gave me the letter tonight, and there was a blowout. Part of the problem is the alcohol. She truly does not remember much of this. I saw how drunk she was, and I believe it. No fucking excuse. If anything it makes it worse because I can’t get answers that I need. She hasn’t had a drop since, and says she never will again. I told her if it happened once, maybe you could blame alcohol (and still not be forgiven). You did it again. Plenty of sober says in between to realize you should never put yourself in the same position again. I am committed to taking 6 months to figure this out. My IC, her IC, our MC. I just don’t see this ending up in anything other than D. I was open with her about that.

You are 100% right that alcohol is no excuse here. Perhaps if it happened one time under the influence, it could be argued that way...but the moment anything else happens it is clearly sober choices.

What is a blowout? She is arguing about this? She doesn't sound even remotely contrite.

No. She was not argumentative about any of this. It was me re: the situation, and my lack of clarity. I believe she was as honest as she could be.

Is she willing to commit to sobriety and a program go maintain her sobriety?

Your resilience is strong! My pride would not allow me to be as kind and cerebral as you. If my wife and my friend in my own home……. More than once…… i would not be able to remain in the same situation or environment.

An alcohol fueled one-off is one thing, but she, at the very least, doubled down.

Is she a problem drinker?

IMHO, cheating is not a simple slip-up lubricated by alcohol, or whatever "reasons" or excuses cheaters desperately grab at.

Cheating, the seeds of cheating, begin in the back of the mind, then migrate to the forefront after much rumination, justification and repression of guilt. Thoughts then turn into the earliest of initial actions that begin to lay the groundwork for the affair to evolve. Many, many micro actions are taken to create opportunity and signal desire such as body language, facial expressions, long stares, loitering in proximity of the potential AP, maximizing appearance, etc. The actions become less subtle, more overt, and by many thousand more degrees, progressively push past boundaries into the first phases of infidelity. Every step of the way, decisions are made, acted upon, evaluated, and acted upon, again and again.

Many opportunities to off-ramp are continually bypassed.

Except in rare circumstances involving significant altered levels of consciousness, cheating is not simply a drunken mistake, it’s a very premeditated decision-multiple decisions, that involves goals, planning and actions, before the first sip of alcohol.

There was no actionable regret from her until you intervened. She would have probably continued for as long she could get away with it.

Vacuuming the carpet is not a good idea; You are taking actions that will affect your emotional, physical/sexual health in the future. Your focus should be on protecting your own mental and physical health.

Instead of confiding in your wife, schedule a polygraph appointment as soon as possible.

Discuss your date with the expert and prepare appropriate questions, such as how many relationships your wife has had.

Have your wife's phone and computer checked by a professional, find out how to retrieve deleted messages, and find out who knows/supports your wife's affairs.

Don't hide the relationship... your family and close friends should know about the situation and offer you support.

Have your partner leave the house for a while, take time for yourself, and continue therapy.

Get advice from a lawyer, or at least propose a legal separation. Check your wife's behavior in this process. Will she support you?

How does she explain doing this multiple times? What does she say she was thinking between time 1 and time 2? On the day of time 2, before all the alcohol, what was she thinking?

I think these qiuestions are a way to see if she is telling the truth. Polygraph is another way too of course. Until she can answer questions like this truthfully, there is no need to do MC. IC alone will be superior.

I always recommend polygraphs to people who have been cheated on.

I think it is ridiculous to believe that someone who lies to your face would be honest on a timeline or in marriage counseling.

I think what is described in this story should be a definite break up. the wife was drunk!!! but she was sane enough to have sex and enjoy it/realize they were caught in a disgusting situation by her husband

The answers she gave you make sense if this was the first time. Not 2 or (probably) more.
Not that it needs to happen right now, but you would do well to go the polygraph route in the near future.
Plenty of advice all around here on how to go about getting that done. Of course if you decide D is the right thing to do, it’s probably a waste of money unless it’s something you just have to know all of.

Was your W sober enough to give consent? How about the 1st time? How drunk was your former friend?

*****

Some responders have focused on one scenario, but there are numerous scenarios that might have applied.

Unthought states he doesn't know a lot of what he wants to know, and I imagine he wants to know what most of us would want.

So why gen up horror stories when it's probably just another couple of sordid fucks? Personally, sober sex has always been better than buzzed sex.

*****

I don't mean to minimize your pain, Unthought. Betrayal seems to give people as much pain as they can stand no matter what the WS actually did. I do not want to even imagine how I'd feel or what I'd do if I walked in on my W and ow. Your W & ex-friend put you in an especially difficult and terrible situation.

In my W's case, the A was pretty mundane. They used an office in an old building in not the best part of town. They went to run of the mill restaurants. They exchanged cheesy gifts.

But IMO what they did is neither here nor there. The pain of the A comes from the fact of the betrayal. That may not be what you feel right now, but if you read what people say when they're a few years out, you'll read that for a lot of us, the lies - both before and after d-day - were the worst part of the A.

*****

My reco is to keep walking your own path. It looks a lot like the paths followed by other BSes who have healed.

Sorry - I trigger when people make assumptions that are not warranted by evidence.

Sorry that you need to be here. You’ve gotten a lot of great advice and seem to be doing as well as you could expect. Your story resonated deeply with me and I wanted to offer one more data point for you to add to the mix.

Ten years ago, I came home from a business trip a day early, stopped and picked up some flowers and came home to surprise my Fiancé. I walked in on her having sex with another man in our bed. While it’s different for everyone, the mind movies and visuals of what I had seen haunted me for years. Even seeing a therapist for months didn’t help as much as I would have liked.

After five years I was finally finding my footing when my Fiancé contacted me. Without going into details, she had been in therapy for five years, apologized profusely and was asking for a second chance. I took some time, but ultimately decided I couldn’t do it. After this, all the mind movies and trauma came flooding back. I guess what I’m trying to say is be very carful in deciding to R. There’s a huge possibility that if you stay with your WW, you’ll never be free from what you saw. It could easily taint every single interaction you have with her for years. Hoping for the best for you.

The secrecy, deception and the lies spun to.maintain the deception hurt me the.most, along with the vilification created to justify the betrayal, which is so.perplexing when you are either totally oblivious or simply know something is not right in the marriage.

The polygraph must be done as soon as possible to protect the deceived person.

It is necessary to think about the damage that unnecessary lies, tricks and manipulations will cause,

One should definitely ask how many relationships his wife had during their marriage. Has your wife had other relationships in your social circle or brought other partners into your home?

Phone data should be checked,

Their friends who know about their relationships should be found out

He should be separated from his wife for a while, focus on himself,

Finally, let me comment on your waiting time.

You think you can control the situation, but your wife is not who you think she is, actually you can't control anything.

They had sex in front of your eyes in your home,

Staying in the same house with her for 6 months means that she will humiliate you even more. Your wife's story will constantly change, she will tell your social circle/family that you have mental health problems, and the children will notice the changes and anger outbursts in you.

You will lose your self-respect, your reputation, your physical health(ed).

Great advice from Sisoon. Take care of your healing. Be there for your children, stay in IC to help you deal with the trauma. Bigger gave you a great outline of questions to help you with answers to the things she does remember. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. What you observed and know is bad enough without unwarranted speculation. You will get through this D or R. Follow your own path. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:24 PM, Saturday, September 21st]

@Unsure2019....ouch. I don't know what else to say but that.

You do mean ex-fiancee, right?

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 2:43 AM, Sunday, September 22nd]

Does your WW admit that she was (and is) attracted to the POS? Is he typically her type?

My WH had his 2nd long-term affair with my best friend, for over 2 years. The worst part was this "witch" (can't use the word I'd like to call her!) told me EVERYTHING she was doing, but told me she was having affair with some other guy. Imagine finding out a couple of years later my husband was the "other guy" and I got the blow-by-blow details from the "witch" the entire 2 years.

So, when he tried to tell me it only happened 2 times, I knew he was lieing. He had no idea she had been telling me everything. Don't believe a word she says, is all I can tell you. Get the details and really feel comfortable with the answers before you make any decisions. They are expert liars I am finding.

She remembered the first time...

Otherwise she wouldn't have been open to and wanting it the second time...

@ Unthoughtknown75

I understand about "telling the kids" Mine were 20/23 in college BUT my daughter was sitting on the couch between us when I found the text on my husbands phone. I had to control myself for 3 days until we got her back to school.

My WS was the one who told the kids- but not details. If I had told my son that his dad did something and I wa shaving a hard time forgiving, he would have known in a heartbeat. This is a vulnerable time for young adults. Our therapist supported us not sharing the trauma with them, some things can be between us- it’s OUR marriage. So my WS had a sit down with my son and told him we were having serious marriage issues, that he was having a mental health crisis and was in therapy, that he had stopped drinking and he was going to do whatever it took to work on himself. He also told him it had taken a great toll on me and I had done nothing wrong but support him and take care of the family.

My 20 year old- needed a brief "we are having marriage issues and working on it" and she completely shut us down. She did not want to hear any details or anything more. She knows we are both in IC and MC. Whenever anyone bring anything up- she refuses to discuss.

So, do they know? Maybe…..but I too will protect my children and this is what we feel is the best. BTW I felt very similar to you—but 1 year post DD an its getting better- my WS has not wavered once and has worked to be "the man of integrity and leader of this family you deserve".

Sending you healing vibes….take good care of YOU

[This message edited by SatyaMom at 12:05 PM, Monday, September 23rd]