SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi,

I’m the WS and I need advice on how to help him and the relationship. Original DD 12/2019. Were still in a loop of love and hate.

What other actions can I do to help him with what I have put him through?

Here’s what I have been doing.

-IC since 1/2020

-deleted all social media accounts

-timelines given

-all passwords provided for accounts

-gps location shared 24/7

-check in multiple times per day at work

-communicate when I am leaving work

-honesty

-apologize in as many ways as I possibly can

-support financially while he starts new career

-bring it up and check in on him multiple times per week

-ask for what he needs

-much better boundaries, strict boundaries towards members of opposite sex

-offered to take polygraph

-offered to pay for MC or IC for him

Im sure there’s more that I’m missing off the top of my head right now. I feel stuck with what I should do to help him feel safe and help him through this. The longer it has been, the more I feel like he’s distancing, and more mad he’s getting. He won’t tell me what he needs.

What did you guys do that has helped? Im not trying to be manipulative or have control. I just want to make sure I am doing the right things because he says nothing has changed.

[This message edited by kccalifornia at 6:15 PM, Friday, November 18th]

Has he asked for any details about the sex? Have you proactively discussed sex with your AP?

If not, he may feel emasculated, embarrassed, second rate sexually, and having mind mind movies. If you have discussed it, he may feel emasculated, embarrassed, second rate sexually, and having mind movies.

Hi there.

I'm reading through your list (which list all good things) and notice a few things missing [forgive me if this has been covered in another post]. I don't see "going NC with AP" on that list. Has that been done? If so, has it been followed?

Also, and this is coming from the perspective of a BS of a LTA - your list, while all good things, reads as a check list would. And perhaps the assumption that if all these things are done and checked off, your marriage will be restored to a good status. Expectations vs Reality.

I am curious about a few things. What are you doing to be a good partner (I read the checklist, but have you discovered your whys - and the whys of those and the whys of those and the whys that are so far under the surface that you may not want to look at them). Have you told him everything - every little detail - holding nothing back even if you may convince yourself "it for his own protection".

Please understand your marriage can't be restored - it can be rebuilt as Marriage 2.0. That takes hard work and dedication. And time. Your spouse can't be magically restored (this one is extra sucky) - your spouse can be rebuilt but may always have a phantom pain and sadly while you caused it, it is his to manage. That's a mind fuck right there.

Has he figured out why he's still so stuck in his healing? That's a him question and his to work out with an IC. I can tell you mine. Mine was "I want this not to have happened". And went through all the early stages of grief multiple times. With multiple DDays. And let me tell you, admitting that it did happen and to me is gut wrenching even as I type this out - I feel that pain and sorrow. Some use that hurt and anger as a security blanket. Because that hurt and anger are easier than acceptance. But the Journey to Acceptance has to be a solo sojourn for him.

I'm glad to see you posting. I'm glad to see you trying. I'm glad you recognize that there is a disconnect along the way. Listen to the collective wisdom of us all - BS and WS alike. R & D alike. We are here for you. And him.

I didn’t have sex. He doesn’t believe me. He doesn’t believe me on what has happened. I know my fault is that I didn’t tell him or come to him. He had to find out everything on his own. He still thinks I live in a fairy tale story book even though I’ve tried to explain everything I’ve done. I’ve been completely honest with him. It took some time for me to label everything and remember everything, but I’ve been honest.

I haven’t had contact with the AP since 2018, same year it happened. My affair was through an inappropriate friendship at work that started with a kiss after a happy hour and ended with the most awkward hang out outside of work. No sex, making out, hand holding, dates, gifts, nudes, sexting. The relationship was through texts. When it finally became real enough and opportunity for anything more was present, it became very awkward and forced. So nothing happened. That was my wake up call and ended it for me. It fizzled out and went back to minimal contact. We currently don’t even live in the same state as AP anymore. I haven’t had a single urge to reach back out.

I’ve figured out my whys. I’ve tried to talk to him But he doesn’t care why. He only cares what. He says I can talk as much as I want and it won’t change his perspective on me. He’s mad if I don’t bring it up (thinks I don’t care) and mad when I do bring it up (doesn’t want to hear it).
But
So now I’m trying to focus on what actions I can improve on.

After this long, It might just be a deal-breaker for him. Even though I chose to D rather than R, I know had I stayed I would never, could never see my WW the same way. Loyalty is huge for me and I would have seen her as damaged goods and I don't do plan B. Once contempt sneaks into a relationship, there is usually going back.

I think a lot of women just don't get male psychology. We actually don't want much. We want a woman who supports and encourages us. We want to know when we come home, it is a safe place we can recharge. We want to be respected by at least one person in this world, our partner. So long as we have one person in our corner we can continue to push forward. And above all else, the foundation of what we want is to know that no matter what happens, how bad things get, we have a partner who has our back, is completely loyal.

Im not minimizing the pain BW'S feel, but it is unique to their gender. So you can see why a wife's infidelity is so damaging to the male psyche. You've demonstrated to him that you are fully prepared to break his trust, so no matter what you say or what you do, full trust can never return. It's the same reason only new tires go on race cars. You can never really trust the patch at 200kph, no matter the craftsmanship.

He may be able to get to a better place through some IC or more time, or this may end up as good as it gets. Infidelity just makes me really sad. So many lives destroyed, and really, for what? I wish we could have this conversation with people before they cheat.

What you listed seems to be on track to good reconciliation. It could be that he just doesn't want to reconcile but also is afraid to leave.

I go back and forth on my feelings for my WH all the time, some days I look at him and get disappointed and other days I want nothing more than for our marriage to succeed.

I am sure some people can never move past infidelity even if they say they want too, he might never get past it. R may never happen even if you do everything "right".

Have you considered time apart, if possible? Give him the opportunity to see if he really does want to be with you? He may benefit for IC as well, or at least a support group like there is here. He needs someone to talk to.

Are you showing genuine empathy?

Are you making room for his emotions and triggers?

Are you being patient?

The "loop of love and hate" is somewhat worrisome. Hate is a strong word. Is it going both ways? At almost three years out, there is a BIG difference between experiencing a trigger and being toxic or abusive.

What are your whys?

Was he able to read the texts?

What have you done to prove there was no sex?

I see you offered to take a polygraph. Why not just take a polygraph? Why put it on him to tell you to take one? Schedule one,and tell him you're taking it. Give him the number of the administrator,so he can work with them to formulate the questions.

I assume you deleted the texts,otherwise it would prove to him that you didn't have sex, no pics,etc. Maybe you can work with your husband to get those messages from OM..Does OBS know? He can request a copy from her.

I agree, offer to take a polygraph.

You have to understand that after an A, the BS is trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together, and unfortunately there will always be missing pieces.

My WH gave me what he said was the absolute truth despite the fact that I had emails and phone calls and expense reports to prove otherwise.

What evidence does your husband have to assure you are telling the truth?

We can all agree that cheaters lie and minimize. My WH was a workplace affair, slept with OW once as she lived on the opposite coast, lots of emails going back and forth daily for about two years, and both of them told me they only kissed while I'm sitting here with concrete proof that they were both lying.

Take the polygraph to put to rest any doubts he has.

It took me years to move through this hell, not everyone fits into the same mold. I probably raged for at least five years, it got less and less but it was hard to accept that the person who had my back stabbed it repeatedly.

The affair might have been a dealbreaker for him, he should consider IC to sort through his feelings.

I’m in the camp that you take a poly. I would let him know that you are going to take one, and ask if he wants to be part of the process. If not, I would proactively do it on your own.

After the poly proves that you’re telling the truth, I would sit him down and tell him you love him, want to remain married, and happily live the rest of yours lives together.

However, you can no longer exist in the M in its current state. I would tell him that you plan on setting him up with an IC, then at the appropriate time MC.

Hopefully he agrees. If not, I would recommend moving forward with a temporary separation. He needs to be shaken out of his current pain spiral, and this might be the right path to do so.

the "Dude" posted:

I’m in the camp that you take a poly. I would let him know that you are going to take one, and ask if he wants to be part of the process. If not, I would proactively do it on your own.

\\

I think the $$ you will spend is worth the gamble that positive results will "shake him out of his tree" - make sure you find an examiner experienced with infidelity.

Maybe discuss with him the questions - you will only get a few. Also the examiner can offer suggestions on questions.

Do you have a copy of Linda McDonalds book: How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair - good and a short read
Also time tested favorite - "Not Just Friends" - need to read that a few times to make sure the lessons stick.

regarding your spouse - JustSomeGuy - He hit some of what is very likely still coursing through your husbands brain.
He need to work on himself - and good chance he might benefit from Individual Counceling (IC) to help his put the facts of your
transgressions into some place where he will be able to move forward towards "healing" - and by healing - that is he has to do the work to put the pains to rest and also figure out how to make new memories to replace the bad ones that keep popping into his brain.

It is a long and arduous path to travel. If he reads about what has happened he will begin to get some ideas on how to move forward. There is/are tons of stuff on the Internet and a lot of it is malarky - people trying to separate you from your $$$.
Plenty of good stuff available for free.

Also the "Healing Library" here on SI - lots of good stuff.

Keep bouncing stuff off people here for ideas and a sanity check - it will help.

Maybe a dumb question, but when he says that "nothing has changed" have you ever asked what exactly hasn't changed?

Look, if you look back at the original post here, what you gave us was checklist, a "honey do" list if you will.

NC? Check.
No social media? Check.
GPS location? Check.

What you are doing are tasks. Tasks have little to nothing to do with change. If you stop for milk, pick up the dry cleaning, and drive the kids to soccer practice, are you a different person by the end? At the end of the day, what you are doing (to quote Brene Brown, "Rising Strong") is "hustling for your worth". You are still trying to make him happy, and in so doing, looking for approval from him. Your own self-worth is still tied to his approval. Since he doesn't approve of you, you are flailing for something else to try and convince him otherwise. I know you say you aren't trying to manipulate him, and I believe that you believe that, but your actions and expectations say otherwise. You are still fighting for what YOU want. But what does HE want? What is best for him, in his eyes? How is staying with his cheating spouse something he should desire? All it seems to be doing is killing him slowly, and killing you slowly by proxy.

He does not want to approve of you right now end. Period, end of story. The things you are doing right now, are things you should be doing anyway... things you should have been doing in the first place. The fact that you are doing them now, after betrayal, may actually feel insulting to him. Like buying candy and flowers after an argument, it can feel like a hollow attempt to patch things up when the issue itself isn't resolved.

He can't know/prove that you have actually gone NC, or that you haven't secretly checked social media on another account, or haven't turned off the GPS, etc. He's been fooled before. He'd rather not believe anything than be fooled again.

As others have said, sometimes, infidelity is a deal-breaker. That HAS TO BE a possibility in your heart and head, because if it's not, then you'll keep hustling for your worth, and he'll keep feeling like shit.

You need to be different than you were before. If he is to believe that you are safe, then he first needs to see, and really accept, that you have changed, and that kind of change is profound. It takes time. It takes patience. It takes great dedication and bravery and a willingness to fail over and over again. It takes a willingness to suffer.

If he's capable of healing on his own, then when he's done, he's going to look to see where you are at. If you are someone who doesn't NEED him to define your own worth, someone who can be sacrificial, someone who can show him genuine empathy and understanding, then that's someone he might reconsider giving a second chance. But that day is not today.

Last thing. I'm not saying to not do all these things listed. They are part of what must be done. But understand that these things are simply "damage control" while the changing takes place. They are not the goal. The goal is to change into a person who loves themselves, has safe boundaries and for whom integrity and responsibility is what their self-identity is built upon.

How did he find out? And we’re you truthful and forthcoming when he found out? Those things can make a difference and are important pieces of the puzzle.

I’m sorry things are still difficult, and I hope you both find peace and healing.

So I will look into booking a polygraph.

At this point, if I come to him to talk about the affair, he shuts down or gets really upset. In the end, there is no room for discussion, no back and forth conversation, no listening. I get one chance to talk (which feels like I make a speech) and then he lights me up about all of my past actions for a minute and then tells me to shut up. It has progressed into this.

So how else do I prove I didn't have sex? I don't have texts or web history anymore. I tried to contact google for my history, its gone. I can try to contact Verizon but these messages are from over 5 years ago. Who knows if I can access social media account history anymore, its been 3 years since I've accessed them. I could tell him to contact AP for messages. He has told me that he contacted my old coworkers at one point and they said I had oral sex (which 1000000000% did not happen). But he won't tell me who told him and every time he brings it up, the location has changed. I wouldn't doubt there would be a rumor in my old department. There were a lot of rumors in our department unfortunately. I worked with 75% guys, who sometimes acted like perverts or children when working. Now, I feel bad for considering the other rumors I've heard that were probably never true. He truly believes I have had sex with someone else in some way.

I've tried to explain my why's. I've written him so many letters and made many attempts on why and what. But they aren't his truth of what he thinks happened.

But what does HE want? What is best for him, in his eyes? How is staying with his cheating spouse something he should desire?

How am I supposed to know if he won't tell me? His answer is usually for me to figure it out and for me to fix it. I get silence or contempt when I try to talk to him. He won't provide solutions for what he wants.

I'm not perfect. I've slipped up on some old habits here and there but overall I am doing much much better. I struggle with accepting that this is just how he is now and how we are. It's my fault. My actions led us to be in this limbo position. I broke him and I broke what we had. Now I want to fix everything. Now I'm trying to be a better person and better partner. I'm working on fixing myself. I'm putting in the work. I'm trying. I know things will never be the same.

Google polygraph administrators in your area. Read the reviews,and call and schedule a test with a reputable administrator. It will take 20 minutes. Since you deleted everything,this will be your best bet.

I can try to contact Verizon but these messages are from over 5 years ago. Who knows if I can access social media account history anymore, its been 3 years since I've accessed them

I find it odd that you swear there was no sex..yet in all the time since dday, you never contacted Verizon to get those messages..or looked at your SM history to try and find proof to the contrary. Or even looked to take a polygraph. It certainly sounds like you've not really tried to prove there was no sex,other than telling your husband there was no sex.

How am I supposed to know if he won't tell me? His answer is usually for me to figure it out

Well,I have to say that sounds unremorseful. Others have said it seems like you have a check list,and the comment above is lacking remorse, and empathy. Betrayed spouses don't want to have to give their cheating spouse a list of ways to help heal the damage they caused. We have enough crap to deal with. You figured out how to carry out an affair without any help from your spouse, so figure out how to heal the damage without him having to tell you. Also..guess what? We don't always know what will help. And,sometimes we think something will help,and it doesn't. We didn't ask for this. It's not his job to guide you.

He's angry because you seem to not be working very hard to prove what you're saying,and you expect him to give you guidelines on how to heal the damage you caused. I'd also guess he's angry that you are trying to make him the bad guy for being hurt and angry.

I've read all your posts. I understand your husband. I was very angry as well. It wasn't until he showed true remorse,and started working on himself, that the anger disappeared. You seem stuck in regret,not remorse. I know you will immediately deny it. But,you should really think about it.

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:50 PM, Wednesday, November 23rd]

You can proactively book the polygraph, take it, pass it, but what are you going to do afterward when he doesn't accept the veracity of it? There's no reason to believe that he would, you know. He appears to be very invested in his version of events, hence the verbal abuse. If he wanted a solution, if he wanted improvement, he'd be asking you for it. He's not. The current status quo is working fine for him. If it wasn't, he'd do something about it.

Don't get me wrong.. I don't think taking a poly is a bad idea so long as YOU accept the results. If you're willing to start standing up for yourself after this test is done, it's money well spent. If you're going to continue to allow him to treat you like shit though, save your money.

As BS's, we can't let infidelity turn us into monsters. The justification for it is obvious, but it's not worth BEING a monster. You're three years down the pike and this guy has committed no actions toward R. What that should be telling you is that R is NOT a priority for him.

If you change nothing, nothing changes. He's fine with that. Are you? Is this really how you want to spend your one and only life? There's no secret sauce for R. We each have to heal ourselves, no different than a broken bone. You can help create an atmosphere for healing but you can't create the bone cells which knit the bones back together. It's hard. Not just for WS's, but for BS's too. It's not fair. It's not just. But it is what it is. When a BS refuses to engage the process, R fails because it starts with two people who are healthy enough for a relationship. You can work on you, and you should. But you can't work on him, and if he refuses to do that, there's nothing you can do to make him.

It is a great list, but sounds like a checklist to me as well. Maybe that you're more worried about "doing it right" vs. doing the genuine work. Not to criticize, but just an observation. I commend you for being proactive with this. Is there anything else YOU think you should be doing? For the BS it is SO unfair, that it is hard to see out of the hopelessness at times. It did take me awhile to get to a place where I recognized that I would have to heal myself - with or without my FWH. That part can make you angry at the whole unfair world. In many ways, that healing is harder staying in the marriage where you're sleeping next to your chief trigger every night.

I'd also have a heart to heart with him about what he thinks he needs to feel better. It is no joke that it takes 2-5 years to recover. We're coming up on 4 yrs, and it's taken me much longer than I'm sure my WS would have liked. I imagine it is also more difficult for a guy to recognize and verbalize what they're feeling and what they need. How has he progressed over this time? For my FWH, it is hard for him to see that this is still something that bothers me....albeit far less than it did. I have to sometimes remind him of how far I've come in the ways he can't see. (i.e......look, I'm not sobbing in my car daily now....etc. God that sounds pathetic....but it was a thing)

Is he open to MC at this point? If so, I'd try it. Particularly if you haven't this far. It COULD be a deal breaker, but that you've both been present this far, could be that he's in the POLF? This healing is SO not linear, despite both of your best efforts? It is an affair season? The holidays were also very hard for me.

When a BS refuses to engage the process, R fails

It sounds like her BS doesn't feel safe enough with her,to attempt reconciliation. He doesn't believe her. With good reason. In this thread she admits she's never even tried to look in her SM for anything that might back up what she said. Never tried to get the deleted messages(why delete? They would have proved her story..), never ran any program on her phone to try and restore the messages she purposely deleted. Never even looked into a polygraph. She's not been proactive in trying to back her story up.

If this was a WS who had done all of those things anywhere close to dday,and it was 3 years later, and her husband still doesn't believe her,then, ok. That's not what is happening here.

She's admitted to TT. Defensiveness. Anger. And, I think she even told him she was divorcing him at one point(unless I have her confused with another ws). Not sure how ANY of that says "remorseful."

I don't think a ws should be subjected to abuse,even though they were(are?) abusers. But I also don't think a BS who,for very good reason, doesn't believe his WW was alone with her OM,and there wasn't any sex, is a monster. He's angry because he believes she thinks he's a fool,and she continues to lie to him.

comment above is lacking remorse, and empathy.

This is most certainly not how I want to come across. This is something to think about.

you never contacted Verizon to get those messages..or looked at your SM history to try and find proof to the contrary.

I've tried to get phone records at one point but don't think they were able to provide so I didn't think of messages. I am not supposed to be on SM so it never occurred to me. I've offered to go through everything on SM together with him though. Contacting Verizon today but don't have much hope for that route.

Going to contact polygraph places today.

ChamomileTea, I get what you are saying. How he is treating me is not okay. Im working on setting, respecting, and maintaining healthier boundaries. Nothing changes if nothing changes. My therapist has said this to me.

You guys give me such a different perspective. Its refreshing. I just want to make sure I am doing the right things. I think I'm making changes and behavior changes. I have more awareness now than ever of where I went wrong, why, and how I went wrong. I am more empathetic, more patient, and more forgiving that I have ever been. I'm also less needy with him and ask a lot less of him.

While I had a lying slip up since this post, I realize that I have a lot to work on still. I have not changed enough and I'm inconsistent.

I've contacted a polygraph test. My husband isn't supportive of the test. So I'm not sure if it's worth taking.
I offered for him or us to contact the AP for messages or to question on my actions. He told me to go fuck myself. That he wouldn't do my job. That it doesn't matter what he would say. That I'm too late.

He says he "doesn't like me, he's over it, he doesn't want me". "Hasn't for awhile". So I asked him where do we go from here, he tells me I can go walk myself back to the bedroom. And that's it. Conversation over.

Guess my "mashed potato brain" doesn't get it. Maybe I'm in denial that is repairable. He doesn't want me or like me. So where does that leave us? Why can't we talk about what the next step is for us? Why does he get to tell me to go away and he return to his phone? Why can't he just tell me what he wants?

If your significant other says they don't want you all the time but then doesn't do anything about it, what does that mean?