SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi BfsT,

I will try to answer to your two last posts.

Do you see a difference if the infidelity happened before the Marriage and the Wayward still got to marry the betrayed partner later on?

Does it feel somewhat excusable or less important if there were not marital vows yet in place when the partner was betrayed?

Unfortunately, I cheated very early into the relationship and I kept it secret. We briefly broke up after that, and when we went back together for me it was a "clean slate". After years, I even stopped thinking about it, I forgot the exact date and so on. I didn’t consider it that "bad" at first. Usual excuses "we had been together only for 3 months", "it was a difficult situation", "I was young" etc.. On one hand, I think that cheating at the beginning of a relationship is less "bad" than cheating on a spouse. But now, I also see how keeping a secret for over a decade was awful. It’s not (just) the cheating, but the fact that I entered the marriage with a secret. I built a shared life on "quicksands", no solid foundations. The hiding and lying have become the real betrayal.

The above is my experience though, obviously others (and yourself included) may see it differently.

Yes- I think this is really where the start of reconciling happens.

Practicing being authentic is awkward because you don’t really know what it means at first.

For me, people pleasing was a huge issue, one that eventually made me stop even checking in with myself to begin to even know what I wanted or needed anymore. I had been living in autopilot, not really designing my life but keeping the balls in the air and making sure not to disappoint anyone.

I did more and more to be loved and lost myself in the process.

So unlearning that, it probably doesn’t feel right yet to the bs even when they fully understand the direction you are trying to grow is appropriate. It’s because it takes time to get to know yourself again and fill out to where it’s natural.

Completely normal in a situation where the ws is truly trying to change some of their core patterns. Try and take it as a good sign and I think in the coming months it will start to gradually get more natural.

Hi again BtfS
I am not sure I will be able to answer your last question, but it reminds me of my last post in the "wayward side" (some parts of it)

I think I am experiencing (from the wayward perspective) what you are describing, although our timelines are different.

From what I am doing and what I understand from others who are further along… I think this is "normal". You see changes but also glimpse of your wife’s "old self". Is this what you meant?

If yes, as a wayward I just keep doing the work.

It’s painful sometimes, yes.

I don’t expect my BS to immediately "let me back in", but I admit that sometimes a honest positive comment / acknowledgment from him (which is not validation or promise for the future) provide lots of comfort.

Yes it is sort of what I mean.

Seeing the change I like it.
Allowing a little more her in fills her with joy. Then there is that echo that seems to attempt to test my boundaries the very moment she feels validated.

I don’t like it. The results is she is cast out again.

I don’t know if this is painful for her, but is unavoidable.
I can’t tolerate that old person, it’s rejection at a skin level.

(About your previous answer I can just say, similar situation, long distance relationship cheated very early and kept it secret. For me it simply turned everything that as and followed as a complete lie. Not a blank slate, a void.)

People who have affairs seem to mainly talk about feeling alive.

Can anyone help me understand this? Did my husband and the woman he had an affair with imagine I was feeling *So AlIvE* while I was doing night feeds at 4am, or potty training a toddler? Is something wrong with me? I thought that when you have a baby and toddler and two difficult jobs, life is hard, temporarily, and that's ok. That doesn't mean I stopped focusing on my relationship, I didn't, but that's a different story.

I saw a post on social media today unrelated to affairs, talking about how feeling singled out, special and important in some way that other "ordinary" people are excluded from makes people feel alive. Is that where the feeling comes from during an affair?

I have heard the same about feeling alive, but my experience is that affairs are much more akin to a painkiller. I did not realize this at the time, but after much work in IC I can definitely see how I had no coping mechanisms for my emotional pain at the time. I also started drinking heavily / doing drugs during the affair and I would lump the affair in with those as a way to try and numb my feelings.

The affair becomes a fantasy where I could compartmentalize away all the stress I was feeling. The marriage and family life were seemingly great, but we also had two young kids (including a newborn), I was working in a very high stress industry, I felt like I was failing as a husband and father (long before the affair), and I had no ability to communicate any of what I was feeling with my wife. I had pretty significant FOO / childhood trauma that I had buried deep down and that played a big factor in how I chose to numb all of the negative emotions most healthy people would be able to deal with and communicate to their spouse.

One thing that came up in a recent CC session is my wife wondering if I was able to communicate with the AP as she was thinking that must have been part of the painkilling aspect of the affair. That was not the case with me as our relationship was very superficial. I did not have the skills to tell anyone what was slowly killing me from the inside. The painkiller was being able to completely disconnect mentally and bury / compartmentalize away the parts of me that were hurting.

I can honestly say that the AP could have been anyone / totally interchangeable. Not sure if you have ever listened to Kathy Nickerson, but she uses the analogy of the AP being like a frozen burrito. You go to the fridge late at night because you are hungry and you choose a frozen burrito not because it is really what you want, but because it is available, convenient, and willing to be microwaved at 2 am. Could have been anything that met that criteria. The AP in my case was equally as damaged as I was and I was likely a frozen burrito to her also.

I think people mistake the painkilling aspect of the affair for "feeling alive", when in reality the affair was slowly killing off the truly good parts of me. I totally blocked the affair for years after before I finally disclosed and realizing why I made such terrible choices required a lot of ongoing work so I get why people in the middle of or recently out of an affair may not see it for what it is.

Can I ask how the mind works when you go back to the AP after trying to R with your primary partner?. My ex had an EA (and they also kissed) with my best friend who was also my neighbour, they got caught by her husband 4 months after it started. We tried to R for 1 year with MC but in the end, I spiralled badly, and he go so angry at this, as I felt in my gut never got to the truth. He left us and within 5 months they were now together, and a year on still are (he told me by text on our wedding anniversary - nice tough after a 17-year relationship).

In that R year I was told it was never about her, he never fancied her, she was just there, she was also unhappy in her marriage and speaking to him, he had depression, FOO, wasn't seen by me etc (utter rubbish I was nothing but supportive), she was just being a friend who listened but they crossed the line.

After him leaving I really worked hard on myself though exercise and therapy and got out there having fun again (Id had lived in 2 years of hell with his mood swings) so did he see me glowing up and loving life and then thought I may as well reach back out to the AP? Was she just easy and we validate each other as we have both broken our families?

Im trying to make sense of what was the actual truth. Would be interesting to understand the thought process of Waywards when they go back to the AP after telling you they meant utterly nothing. And I know they lie and minimise and re write history saying they were never happy (I swear he was until she turned his head). I read on here the APs mean nothing about is that actually true if the circle back? and still together?

What can cause the collapse of compartmentalisation for the WS?

Do WS who left their spouse for the AP, miss their family before?

What do you expect, when you make that decision?

Did you think through life logistics, with the AP together?

Or was it just, it's too hard to stay in the family now, that trust is broken, staying with the AP is the easier way out?

I have hesitated to respond to the last two questions as I am trying to reconcile with my wife and the questions are about when you leave for the AP, but I do not think you will find many members on SI that are waywards who left for their AP so am going to answer what I can from my experience.

I firmly believe that in the vast majority of infidelity, the wayward is just fundamentally broken along dimensions that have nothing to do with the betrayed spouse or the state of the marriage. I think this gets confused because 1) it seems counterintuitive (ie why would someone step outside the marriage if everything is good) and 2) many waywards justify their choices by rewriting history and putting blame on their relationship with the betrayed (which is objectively ridiculous as an affair will never solve any actual issues if there are any).

I never seriously considered leaving for the AP, but I was pretty addicted to the rush / dopamine that comes from the affair. This has little to do with the AP; however, I realize that now only through a lot of work I have done on myself via books, IC, this site, etc. Can very easily understand how some waywards would be unable to break that addiction and leave their spouse / family before realizing that whatever the underlying issues that helped enable their terrible choices are now present in the relationship with the AP. For me it was easy to compartmentalize the fantasy life that was the affair and that kept all of the things I had buried / internalized causing me emotional pain blocked when I was with the AP. Once fantasy life becomes real, I think the rush of the affair disappears in a hurry.

Obviously every situation may be a little different; however my sense is most waywards who leave for the AP regret their decision (probably pretty quickly), but may stick out a bad relationship for at least a while because the realization that you blew up your and your family's lives for something so meaningless is too hard to process.

As far as what eventually breaks down the compartmentalization, in my case it took years. I had some pretty significant trauma in my childhood and teenage years that I never dealt with. I thought I had moved on as I became successful (went to an elite ivy League school, worked a prestigious job on Wall Street, etc), but the impact of the unresolved trauma was always present and had a hugely negative impact on my relationships. I learned early in life that just putting a wall to segment the emotional pain was ac quicker path to getting past it than dealing with the pain in any healthy way. That became such a part of me that it was like breathing / required no conscious thought. About a decade after my affair ended, the walls started to slowly crumble, but took another decade before they came down completely and I disclosed. I think the initial impetus was my mind realizing how far my choices had taken me away from the person I was now trying to become. I started to really struggle, but could effectively re build the wall and compartmentalize again for a while. Eventually I started to do the real work to be a better person and the walls crumbled completely. I knew I had to disclose to my wife and live with whatever consequences would come with that.

I know this does not answer questions you have about the wayward leaving for the AP, but want to share my experience as I am not seeing other responses. I think most waywards who leave are likely not dealing with their issues and would not be on a site like this, but hopefully others may have more relevant experiences they will share.

@feelingverylow

I’m very grateful for your kind and thoughtful reply.

We tried to reconcile but failed. His heart was too far gone.

I sense that, during reconciliation, he tried to put AP in the box. Now, he’s put me and our family history in the box.

My dad left my mom and four children for one of his APs when I was relatively young. They stayed married for approximately 10 years before divorcing and I do not think that either my dad or his AP / wife were ever very happy in that marriage. I am pretty sure both ended up having affairs.

While I have very little relationship with my dad, I am very close with my mom. Cannot imagine the stress of having four young children as a young single mom. She returned to school to get a second bachelor degree and a masters so she could support our family (she has been a SAHM for 10 years when my dad left). My dad used the threat of a messy custody battle to pay the bare minimum in support so my mom had to pick up graveyard shifts at the hospital while she finished school to keep us in our house. I have so much love and respect for her. She sacrificed so much to give us as much normalcy as could be had during that time.

My dad remarried shortly after divorcing wife #2 and has actually stayed married for the last 30 years; however, I know he has had at least two affairs during that marriage. He is a pretty sad person as I do not think he has ever felt love toward anyone.

My mom remarried when I was a teenager and although it was tough to integrate a blended family (her husband had four teenagers and we were four teenagers so we had eight teenagers in a pretty small house) she and her husband have been happily married for the last 40 years. We had some rough patches the first few years as a family (my mom's husband lost his wife to cancer and his kids were still dealing with a lot of trauma also), we have all gone on to productive lives.

I would recommend therapy for your children. I never dealt with the issues my dad abandoning us caused and it contributed to going in a pretty bad direction as a teenager. By the time I pulled my life back together I had a number of issues that caused pretty significant trauma that I buried rather than dealt with. Those issues impacted me in ways I have started to unpack just recently as I prepared to disclose to my wife.

Ironically, one thing my wife has often said is she never suspected I would ever have had an affair because of my history with my dad. It is actually one of the most difficult things for me to process because I saw first hand the devastating impact his infidelity (multiply infidelities) had on my family and me. I have a better understanding of why this was actually a contributing factor rather than helping prevent me from making the same terrible choices, but does not help the additional layer of guilt / remorse knowing I did this when I still have such negative emotions towards my dad.

Long way to say that although not my situation, I did experience what your children are going through and have seen how that plays out over the next several decades. The wayward (my dad) has been pretty miserable and my mom has had a wonderful life despite a pretty rough few years after the initial fallout. All of my siblings are close with my mom and have either little or a very superficial relationship with my dad. My love and respect for my mom has only increased over time and I will forever be grateful for everything she did especially during the first few years after the divorce.