SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

ButterFlyInProgress,

I am curious about your response. Is it possible that it was meant for a different post and was accidentally placed on my thread? If not, can you clarify for me?

Asterisk

LetMeBeFrank,

Please LMBF, do not apologize, you have nothing to be sorry or bad about. You are just trying to understand me and I appreciate it.

That is not what I intended. From what I understand, you reconciled with your wife decades ago, but you’ve (until recently?) nursed some unresolved pain, which is what you’ve been exploring on this website.

That is about as good of a summery as any.

I knew that there was some nagging pain, but I did not, and still do not, associate it with "unresolved pain". Honestly, I flinch a bit when I read your words. I fall more on the side that there will always be, no matter the level of success in my reconciliation with my wife, some latent pain. Our marriage was murdered by the love of my life. That is a pain that I don’t have to tools to fully "resolve". I view it as just part and the package, that I am willing to coexist with.

What brought me to this site was a couple of current issues (a year ago) that actually had nothing to do with my wife as it pertains to her now. I allowed myself to fall into a state of deep ruminations and false associations. The problem was me and my mental actions, not my wife and her physical actions. I still maintain this to be true. I was shadow boxing with ever swing landing a gut punch to both myself and, sadly, my wife. And, as hard as I set my mind to "STOP IT" I just was not capable, which caused me to be extremely disappointed and angry at myself. So, I searched what didn’t exist back then, the internet and eventually landed at SI in rather bad shape. It was here, from a couple of individuals, who not only listened to me but "heard me" and gave me several different versions of this excellent advice, "Let the past remain in the past, it is not relevant (nor true) to my journey in this moment in time." It was that foreign (to me) concept that helped me see that my relentless need to know everything, all the why’s and how’s, was, at this late stage, not only an impossible goal but an unhelpful one. I came here knowing that I was hurting me (and I will add, my wife) trying to force something that what was no longer possible nor important.

Please, please, please, especially for anyone who is new at dealing with infidelity, this advice is probably not helpful. I hesitated to even bring it up. But for someone who has been successful at creating, with my wife’s help, a wonderful, though not flawless, 53 year marriage, and then found themselves struggling decades later, it was what I needed to hear.

I doubt this answers your question. I think I am sidestepping it.

Asterisk

Asterisk,

I think I managed to avoid most of your pitfalls. Not due to some higher understanding or wisdom, but mostly because of the support from this site and the fact that I discovered it so early, 4 weeks after discovery. It's been so, so helpful for me. For us. Don't ever beat yourself up for struggling the way you did. You didn't have the benefit many if us here do/did. I don't think you still do, but I just wanted to say it just in case.

Now, 15 months later, I think my newest revelation has a lot to do with this.

Stall!!!: Give precious seconds their quietness, so one can respond instead of reacting. Watch and hold one’s words for the temptation to strike back is, most likely, thundering within. Not unlike the affair, once careless words are spitted out, then harshly heard every syllable will never be fully retractable or completely un-heard.

Kindness: If there were ever a time for kindness to be given and received it is on D-day and the years following. 1st be kind to oneself. 2nd be kind to one’s spouse. 3rd be kind to your thoughts – all thoughts. 4th be kind to your spouse’s thoughts – all of them. 5th Be kind to your decision to either reconcile or divorce. Kindness is not agreement; it is not weakness and most of all, having to be kind is not fair to the betrayed, but it is what I believe is one of the best gifts to give to yourself and to your spouse.

I've not been overly cruel, mean, loud, or name call-y, but I do sometimes have a way with words and sometimes they can cut like a knife. My wife has been so supportive and she goes above and beyond to tell me how much she loves me, how much she's attracted to me and desires me physically still. She says the most wonderful and heartfelt things, but I've found that sometimes her kindness actually stings because I think to myself "yeah, but you said/did those things with someone else, too, so the specialness is gone now," and I verbalize that to her. Not harshly. I could word it even worse, but very matter of factly, and I could see those words still cut her like a knife every single time.

She's very wracked with guilt over her actions and I'm having a hard time not adding to it. I've very recently resolved to stop doing that. It's been over a year. I think I've been testing her, and I've failed to drive her away. Not that I really wanted to, but I guess I needed to know that she really still loves me. I don't know, but not only has my new resolve led to a weight being lifted off my shoulders, I think it's taken our relationship to the next level. I've seen and read about so many stories here involving less than repentant wayward wives and I know I have a unicorn on my hands with her. I need to stop torturing her and let her love me the way she wants to love me, which is a pretty special and wonderful type of love. When she gives herself over, she gives 1000%. I can really feel it.

I've always had a very strong libido. So has she. Quite some time ago I was put on an SSRI that I later found out carries a side effect of killing libido and anorgasmia. Not only did it kill my libido, it left me emotionally flat and numb. I didn't care about anything. It killed our intimacy. We had a dead bedroom for years. We've talked extensively about it and she still tears up thinking about it. I robbed her of the intimacy she needed for so long, and she dealt with it for years before she finally broke. When someone came along and showed an interest in her she was primed for an affair.

I stopped taking that drug a few years ago, but upon some research I discovered that a certain subset of people suffer from Post SSRI Sexual Dysfunction (PSSD) for years after discontinuing use. I'm one of those people. Sometimes it's even permanent. Thank god that's not the case with me, but I felt like I might be broken forever. Over the last year that seems to have resolved. Now, with a little help from daily low dose tadalafil, our intimacy is off the charts. It's daily. It's been wonderful. Just yesterday she told me through tear filled eyes that she missed me and she's so thankful I'm back. I felt horrible. I really hurt this woman who loves me more than she's loved anything and she didn't deserve it. I sometimes feel like I was a soulless monster, and in some ways I was. I was a heartless, passionless, emotionless walking zombie.

All that said, I know, and as is the mantra here, there is no excuse for infidelity. Never. She could have gone any other number of routes, and I've been having trouble forgiving that. At the same time what I did was almost unforgivable. Her affair was very short lived, and when faced with losing me she completely fell apart. Her AP is less than an asterisk (like what I did there? Lol) to her now. She never loved him, but he did provide, for a very short amount of time, the intimacy she had been craving from me for so many years. She deeply regrets that now. She's done some IC and is currently setting up some more.

I apologize for the thread jack, but I know from reading your posts that you're very forgiving about that, and what I quoted you saying above really struck a chord with me. I need to work on that. I need to work on forgiveness and kindness because I have a rare gift. A woman who not only loves me, but still physically craves me even after extreme neglect and 28 years of marriage. I still crave her, too. I'm more than confident she'll never do this again. What we have is very special and I think I need to start treating it as such. Your words have helped reinforce that for me. Thanks man.

[This message edited by Pogre at 1:50 PM, Wednesday, July 29th]

But, from a long-hauler perspective, much of what I thought was extremely important to know and understand, has become unimportant...

...Knowing that has helped me to seek my peace through different avenues.

I was thinking about this just this morning, and it reminded me of this thread, which makes me think the thread probably planted a seed, for which I'm grateful.

I use a general guideline in my life (particularly in my freelance illustration work for clients) that many of you are probably already familiar with. I think it comes from business-y leadership contexts, but works everywhere: be more in love with the problem than you're in love with the solution. There's no profit in tying yourself stubbornly to one single approach that you think should "work." The need is the need. Listen to it and be ready to adapt to the part of the need you didn't fully understand the first time you sought to meet it and came up short.

As much as I have some very strong ideas about what's helpful in moving forward in this scenario, sometimes I have to tell myself, don't look now, but some of your methods are counterproductive.

For what it's worth, I'm quite early in the process, and I don't find your perspective unhelpful or unsympathetic. I don't think you should zip it.

Thanks again, Asterisk.

Pogre,

I think to myself "yeah, but you said/did those things with someone else, too, so the specialness is gone now

Yep, I know that voice. It buckles the knees. It is the perfect example of some of the shadow boxing I found myself engaged in for decades post D-day. It is also a wonderful example of how a few individuals here at SI helped me see that my interpretation of the loss was causing me far more suffering than the loss itself. To add to that thought, it was here that I was introduced to the concept of though my wife sacrificed the "specialness" of our intimate lives that does not mean the past must dictate the moments she and I now enjoy. Harder done than said, but that advise gave me a working formula to calculate my way out of the grief I was in 14 months ago.

We had a dead bedroom for years. We've talked extensively about it and she still tears up thinking about it. I robbed her of the intimacy she needed for so long, and she dealt with it for years before she finally broke. When someone came along and showed an interest in her she was primed for an affair.

This is an amazing insight, one that allows empathy towards your wife to exist. Of course, I know from other things you have written, that her decision was hers alone. It is an awkward, fine-line between recognizing events that help set the stage for an affair verses taking on some of the blame for a spouses decision to seek and complete and affair. I admire you for your willingness to seek out your roll while not accepting any of the blame for the decision to cheat. Tricky very tricky!

I apologize for the thread jack, but I know from reading your posts that you're very forgiving about that, and what I quoted you saying above really struck a chord with me.

Heck no! No apologies for adding depth and width to my thread. Your writing also adds more emotion, needed emotion to this thread. I can’t express how it makes me feel to hear that something I might have said "struck a chord" with you. It lets me know that I am at least somewhat successful at paying forward what others here did for me.

What we have is very special and I think I need to start treating it as such. Your words have helped reinforce that for me. Thanks man.

Okay, now you’ve done it. Reaching for the Kleenex box.

Asterisk

SeekingWhatEver,

....be more in love with the problem than you're in love with the solution.

Holy Smokes! That is an interesting quote that I am now going to have to investigate. It falls in line with some of the Stoic and Buddhists approach to life’s difficulties that were shared with me here at SI. I love the simplicity of the line and yet not simplistic in its meaning. Now I’ve got homework to do. 😊

As much as I have some very strong ideas about what's helpful in moving forward in this scenario, sometimes I have to tell myself, don't look now, but some of your methods are counterproductive.

Yes, too many of mine fit this quote. That is why it is nice to have others to bounce off ideas with.

For what it's worth, I'm quite early in the process, and I don't find your perspective unhelpful or unsympathetic. I don't think you should zip it.

Crap, where is a new Kleenex box! Pogre got me to use up the other one!

Asterisk