SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello,

I'm a BS that has been in a relationship with my wife for 17 years. I'm not 100% sure what my goal is with posting this. I have been reading the forums for the past few days contemplating on whether or not I should post here. I guess I have decided.
I will try to keep it relatively short. I was unsure wether to post this in "just found out", but DDay in my case was early november of last year so it didn't feel fitting to post there.

English is not my native language so I apologize if the text doesn't read fluently or has mistakes.

I still remember DDay as if it were yesterday. It was sunday evening when I had put my eldest son (5 years) in bed and came back down only to have my wife tell me we needed to talk. Somehow those words immediately made my heart sink.
We had just gone on a week long trip with the couple (and their three children) we were best friends with. I noticed how at the end of the trip and during the weekend when we were back home they had gone silent. I had wondered why this was and had asked my wife, but she said she didn't know. I immediately realised her wanting to talk would be about this.
She had been having an affair with my best friend for three years (emotional for 6 months, physical for the rest). We had been close friends as a couple for a longer time and met atleast once a month for boardgames etc. He was the godfather of my youngest son. I have known him for 20 years. He was part of my group of best friends that I met with atleast once a week, we would go on weekends together, friend trips,...
Needless to say, my world was shattered. Not only betrayed by my wife, but one of my closest friends aswell. I later found out this is labelled as a "Double Betrayal".

The first week after DDay was me taking care of my sons alone while my wife was staying with her father. I still don't fully understand how I managed to get through that week, let alone the first month. I did realise I was 100% comitted to taking care of my sons and focused on that. When they were at school I had room to feel the utter despair of my life falling to pieces.
In that week me and my wife talked every day for about an hour. Where I could ask questions, vent tons of frustration,...
Two days after DDay she broke contact with AP. The first few weeks were so weird, it felt like I was talking to another person. After 8 days she moved back into the house as we tried figuring everything out.

I could go on about how much I felt I had lost at that moment, but I don't think I need to explain that on this forum.
The affair/talks started about 2-3 months after the birth of our second son. I struggle so hard with this timeframe since starting our family was not easy. The birth of our sons took us about 5 years of dissapointment, sadness and fertility treatments. This was a period where we endured so much and supported eachother so heavily trough the process. We felt like the best team ever and I felt like if we could survive/endure this as a couple we were unbreakable... Three months after achieving our dream would show we weren't.
I could go on and tell of the story of what turned into what and go into details, but I'm not sure if it is needed here.
Let's just say that the contempt and disrespect shown to me and OP (I assume this means the partner of AP?) was mind blowing. They usually met in his car during her lunch break, but also went to day hotels, in their home, in our home, in other places during trips when we were also there,...

Somehow during those first weeks and month my rational took over. I was so invested in trying to understand why this happened. Trying to find information from the perspective of a male BS was rather challenging, but I did read/look up about everything possible. I read books (like Esther Perel's "The State of Affairs) to try to understand how they work. I wouldn't advise this to everyone as she almost glorifies affairs, but it did give me insights/angles.
It took my wife a few weeks to be certain of what path to take (in what I later discovered was something they sometimes call Affair fog). For some reason, mainly my love for her I'd imagine, I felt I didn't want our story to end this way.

I grilled her for months telling her how much she had destroyed, how unfair and ugly the A was, asking her for details, asking her why, ... I'm sure any BS can relate to this.
The internet mainly told me to just give up and kick her out because a long time affair, and a double betrayal, means she's a monster. But I don't believe she is. I think she was extremely selfish, showed utter contempt and disrespect and got completely lost in the A that she had by choice, but I don't think it should define her as a person for the rest of her life. Am I stupid to feel this way?

We are 10 months into R now. The A is still heavily defining our life, but I feel it is getting better. I feel I am getting better. Having that full realisation of what has happened and what the person I trusted the most (and the AP who I trusted as a friend also) have done to me can still rattle me to the core. But those moments are getting a bit rarer.

I've spent days looking up how a WS is supposed to behave, feel, act, etc.
I'm always surprised to read mainly things that she is doing, even though it often still doesn't feel like enough.

- She has cut contact with AP completely, blocking him on all platforms and lets me look through her phone/laptop when I feel the need to.
- She takes full responsibility for what she has done
- She is fully committed to R, has read a lot of books, articles, etc to either help her understand my side or help with R. She's constantly looking for ways to make me feel better, to show she still realises what I feel, to show she hasn't forgotten the A.
- She feels a lot of remorse, guilt, shame and regret for everything she has destroyed and the pain she has inflicted on me and our family. I struggle with this sometimes as it's hard to fully trust if it is all real, but it doesn't feel faked and the pain is genuine.

I have been feeling better, but still have major setbacks weekly. I still often am just angry at her. I still struggle to cope with the heavy elements of it all. I think about it every day. I still hate the AP for betraying me and a friend and for being half the reason my life got ruined. I hate him even more for never saying sorry or showing any remorse or responsibility. I still have moments where I doubt wether it is all worth it.

But overall I feel a bit more at peace. I believe we can make a sort of 2.0 version or our marriage. One with brutal scars that heal but will always be there. Our hours and hours of talking has made us understand eachother even better. She has been in therapy ever since (and had actually gone into therapy during the A stating a different reason to try to stop the A, but she failed). I went into therapy but just ended it as I didn't feel like my therapist was making a big difference/helping me with the things I needed most. We have been in couples therapy since we decided to commit to R and found enough reasons.

I've just written the above and again I'm wondering why I'm actually posting this or if it will make any sense. It's hard to somehow describe the hardest 10 months of my life in a few pages.
I guess a part of me just wanted to post this for the sake of it. Maybe to find someone who has gone through a similar brutal process and managed to find R.

A few months into R I always had this idea of three possibilities:
- My WS is a monster and she is fully manipulating me again // I find this option unlikely
- My WS does feel remorse, regret, ... but will ultimately give in to temptation again, basically the "once a cheater, always a cheater" // I guess this could be possible, but it doesn't feel like it is the case
- My WS has fully seen the damage she has caused to me, our family and herself and will never want to risk doing this again. // I guess I hope this to be the reality.

It's hard to find stories that I can fully relate to. The double betrayal aspect, the fact it was three years, ...

Am I wrong to believe that R can work? To believe she made a horrible and selfish choice she will now regret for the rest of her life? Am I wrong to believe her remorse? Am I wrong to believe I could be happy again in our marriage?

Thanks for reading.

Welcome Lupulus. I'm sorry that you are here but glad you found us.

First, your DDay really wasn't that long ago. You are at the beginning of this painful journey. Glad to hear you are feeling a little better but not surprised that you struggle with daily thoughts, pain and anger. Totally normal. They say 3-5 years to heal from this type of betrayal because it traumatizes you. It is a legit trauma, don't doubt that. That means you will need plenty of time and support to heal.

I want to address you asking if you are "wrong," in your thoughts/feelings. There are no wrong feelings. You may want (at this point) to save your marriage. That is how you feel. Don't beat yourself up over your feelings.

But feelings can't run the show. They can guide you to a point, but feelings don't change facts. The facts of the affair (this was not a mistake) or the facts of your marriage (it is fragile right now). won't change because you hope they will.

My best advice to you is to focus as much as you can on your own healing. If that therapist didn't help you, there is nothing stopping you from trying another. A therapist trained in trauma recovery is usually best. In addition to therapy, get support from friends and family. Take space for yourself when you need it. Rest when you need it. Really focus on you, what you're feeling and what you are needing every day. Give yourself what you need whether that's your favorite hobby, a walk in the fresh air, cuddling with your kid or spending time with a friend that loves you. You need to take great care of yourself in order to heal. You wife cannot do this for you and her participation in this is minimal. She can try to create a safe place for you to heal (transparency, honesty, being present and comforting) but she cannot heal you.

Please be good to yourself. As you heal, you will either develop the strength to try reconciliation or you will determine that you can't go forward in this marriage. You really can't make that decision until you are more healed.

Lupulus:

Sorry you're going through this. A couple of questions though:
1) Does the OBS (Other Betrayed Spouse) know about the affair. I'm assuming she does but I don't believe you explicitly stated so. If so, are the AP and OBS still together? Are you in contact with OBS to make sure the affair or contact has not been re-established? Did you confront your ex-best friend?

2) You state your WW has been acting like a WW should act, but other than the initial 8 days that she was out of the house, what consequences has your WW endured? Does her family know about the affair? Who else was the affair exposed to? Has she given you access to all her communication devices freely and whenever you want to inspect them? Did she take a STD test? Has she taken a polygraph?

mainly things that she is doing, even though it often still doesn't feel like enough.

The "It doesn't feel like enough" is the whole injustice of infidelity. A lot of people here will tell you that justice can never be found after infidelity. Well, that is true in most things in life... that doesn't mean that police officers stop making arrests or that we close the courthouses down because true justice can never be fully achieved. What is important though is the "Pursuit of Justice"... Ok, this is probably a philosophical conversation more suited to the General Forum. But in your case, has your WW truly felt some consequences of her affair? If not, this is going to continue to eat at you for years

Sorry that you find yourself here, but you will receive good support. I refer you to the healing library and pinned threads, especially "before you say reconcile…recover". Good advice from TheEnd. There is nothing wrong with your feelings. But it is important to focus on your own healing. Do consider another therapist trained in dealing with infidelity trauma. You suffered a huge betrayal. It’s important to understand you never deserved any of this. Get in touch with your life and interests. Pursue a life fulfilling both within and without your M. This is difficult with small children, but vital to your healing. All of this is terribly unfair to you and you can never balance the scales. She will never be able to do enough. But she can continue to work n her own issues, demonstrate empathy for your pain and together you can build something new. It’s very hard and tough sledding but doable. Good luck.

I think she was extremely selfish, showed utter contempt and disrespect and got completely lost in the A that she had by choice, but I don't think it should define her as a person for the rest of her life. Am I stupid to feel this way?

Welcome, Lupulus. I'm very sorry that you found yourself here. What is it with friends having affairs with the spouse of their friends? Those were never friends in my opinion, just random snakes. I'm disgusted at the level of disrespect both your former friend and your wayward have shown you. As to whether or not the affair should define your wife, I have an opinion about that. I don't want to offend you but your wife is a cheater and that will never change. There is never gonna be a reality where she never cheated, and even if she gets rid of you and starts a new relationship, if she is honest, she would confess that she cheated on her spouse. Which makes her a cheater. Just like someone who has battered their partner in the past, or abused or even worse. Those things are actions that do define the way people are looked at. There are no reformed murderers or reformed abusers or reformed rapists or reformed liars, or reformed thieves. If you knew your next door neighbor did time for grand larceny, you wouldn't be cool with giving him a spare key to your crib. Or if you were notified that your new neighbor was a registered offender, you wouldn't exactly let them babysit your kids. In my opinion, your wife is an offender, she just never registered. Sure, people can improve their character and never repeat their "errors", but others have the right to consider them "Usual Suspects". If you didn't have kids with your wife I would tell you to run. I'd like you to focus on yourself and your children, and do what is in your best interest.

[This message edited by Machiavelli1469 at 4:40 AM, Tuesday, September 24th]

Thank for the replies and the support. I'll try to answer questions as best as possible.

1) Does the OBS (Other Betrayed Spouse) know about the affair. I'm assuming she does but I don't believe you explicitly stated so. If so, are the AP and OBS still together? Are you in contact with OBS to make sure the affair or contact has not been re-established? Did you confront your ex-best friend?

The OBS does know, we exchanged details, our pain and their stories in the first few weeks.

AP and OBS are still together.

I was in contact with the OBS for the first few months, but it has died down. I think since we are both still together with our WS it makes just being in contact difficult. I'm sure if I had any questions or if our WS would be in contact the OBS would inform me.

I did not confront him directly. I always assumed he would atleast give some form of apology or take ownership of his part of the A, but he never did. I have considered confronting him, but I think the odds of me losing it and doing something I would regret is significant.

2) You state your WW has been acting like a WW should act, but other than the initial 8 days that she was out of the house, what consequences has your WW endured? Does her family know about the affair? Who else was the affair exposed to? Has she given you access to all her communication devices freely and whenever you want to inspect them? Did she take a STD test? Has she taken a polygraph?

Her family (and mine) know about the affair. She has taken ownership and reached out to both my brother and my parents.

Most of our friends know about it. She has gone to have conversations with a fair amount of friends and explain what happened. She was honest with them and took responsibility. She has written a letter to the OBS, but the OBS refused to read it. She has apologised to everyone that was impacted by this in some capacity.
She changed her job because she often used it to cover the A up.

I have acces to her communication devices, I don't feel the need to check up on it daily or anything, but I do check from time to time at random moments and she never refuses or acts weird about it.

Polygraph isn't really a thing in our country and I don't think it would give me peace so we haven't done that.

Look closely at her timeline of when the affair began. I would DNA test your children. This level of betrayal from her probably indicates she has loose boundaries. Sorry but 10 months is the blink of an eye, you're in for a gut wrenching journey with her.

I would look closely at your friend group. They may have been cheer leading the AP on. Don't give the AP much thought unless he vowed to you to not eff your wife.

Take Care

For an outline of how a a wayward good candidate for R should behave, see https://survivinginfidelity.com/forums/13/wayward-side/.

If fear of D is holding you back, see https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/497843/fear-vs-reality/.

At 10 months out, it's impossible to know if R will succeed. IMO, you describe yourself and your W in normal terms for someone 10 months out, unless there are red flags you haven't mentioned. R takes time; partners need patience with the process. Maybe you'll R; maybe not. You can handle either outcome.

You may have posted because you wanted to outline where you are now. That's often useful. SI offers a journal feature that allows you to keep track of your thoughts as you heal. You can access it by accessing your profile. Then go to the 2nd line below your name, and move over 4 items to 'my journal'.

I did not experience a double betrayal (friend with WS), and our son had long since moved away, but I think I reacted very much like you did - anger, grief, fear, interrogation, desire to understand why, therapy, MC ... after 3.5-4 years of work, I considered myself to have R'ed. It's eminently possible.

I do not think empathy for my pain was the top requirement for R. The top requirement was, IMO, the WS's willingness to dig deep into their own issues and to change from cheater to good partner. If a WS embarks on that work and sticks with it, they are a good candidate for R.

It's true that if you stay together, cheating will always be part of your story as individuals and as a couple. I do not see how D changes that, but apparently others do.

Being betrayed is excruciating. False R adds pain to the BS's life. R adds joy. Life is risky. If you're both willing to do the work necessary for R and you both want R, why not go for it?

Look closely at her timeline of when the affair began. I would DNA test your children. This level of betrayal from her probably indicates she has loose boundaries. Sorry but 10 months is the blink of an eye, you're in for a gut wrenching journey with her.

My sons are both the result of extensive IVF treatment, the hospital would have had to be in on the affair in order for them not to be mine. But I do appreciate the warning.
I've also done some extensive research/digging into the timeline and so far have not found any proof as to the A having started earlier.

I would look closely at your friend group. They may have been cheer leading the AP on. Don't give the AP much thought unless he vowed to you to not eff your wife.

They have cut him from the group and most of them barely have any contact with him. It is a really close knit friend group so they were completely shocked.

Being betrayed is excruciating. False R adds pain to the BS's life. R adds joy. Life is risky. If you're both willing to do the work necessary for R and you both want R, why not go for it?

Thanks for your reply and especially this part.

[This message edited by Lupulus at 10:05 AM, Monday, September 30th]

I missed the last sentence of your reply that polygraph isn't possible in your country.

My top concern would be whether she had cheated on you with others as well. 3 year LTA is bad enough (double betrayal no less). You've been together 17, how many more are lies?

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 10:01 PM, Monday, September 30th]

I'm also a betrayed husband, 20 year marriage that I thought was healthy to someone who I never dreamed could act so terrible.

I will talk only from my experience but also share my experience of talking with several other betrayed men. First, it's super common to be completely blindsided by this. Almost every man I have spoken to about this was blindsided. It's also very difficult to break the internal views or biases about how you view your wife in the early stages. You love your wife and would probably describe her as your best friend and love of your life - so it's natural to give her the benefit of the doubt and blind trust. I know I did. I would've bet all the money I had that if my wife was so unhappy with me that it threatened comprising her values, she would divorce me and she would most certainly not cheat with another married man. Wrong!

Again, this is just my experience and what I have learned in my healing journey, so take it for what it’s worth. The UW who gets discovered cheating beyond the post 10-year marriage mark tends to have more than one affair and always cheats with other married men. This is exactly what happened with my EX and so many men that I have spoken with about infidelity. In my opinion cheaters fall into buckets and within those buckets there tends to be a universal cheaters playbook for each bucket. For the purpose of this we can call them Category #1 and #2. In my opinion category #2 cheaters have much larger unresolved issues (their true) why and it is not uncommon for them to have another personality issue e.g., cluster B, manic depression, ect…

Please take this as non-expert advice but here is my take on cheating. Category #1 The early in marriage immature cheating type. This cheater is not fully ready for marriage and has some boundary issues. Still young enough to party and go with friends, they enjoy the thrill of flirting, I think ubiquitously all cheaters share this attention/validation trait and they get caught up in a quick affair and feel tremendously terrible about it and confess to either end their marriage or restore their relationship with their betrayed spouse. This can happen in 10+ year marriages I just don't think I've ever talked to a betrayed husband where this has been the case. There is a very redeeming and protective factor with this cheater, they cannot live with the guilt. They are not cut out for compartmentalization and don’t function well living a double life for extended periods.
That's moves us to category type two cheater. IMO this is the monster cheater. This cheater tends to lack empathy and is fully capable of compartmentalizing their life, they especially lack empathy when pain is caused by their behaviors. They also start off like the type one cheater. Poor boundaries and lots of flirting or behavior they wouldn't do in front of their spouse, some even do that. They know it's not okay, but they feel it's harmless fun. Before long they have an undisclosed emotional affair and infatuation. This can lead to multiple reoccurrences of this pattern. This is normally neither disclosed nor fully addressed. This cheater has at least one, but more commonly multiple physical affairs defined as sex or everything, but sex and it's fully compartmentalized as a double life, with all the fun stuff lies, deceit, manipulation, and gaslighting. After all this type of cheater has been ingesting all those toxins in for so long it becomes 2nd nature to them. And most commonly the chronic lying and compartmentalization has been with them since childhood.

In this scenario, the betrayed spouse upon discovery sees their spouse as the category #1 cheater and they've built up such an image of them they can't even fathom seeing them as anything like the monster. The betrayed spouse is also in a fog. You can't and won't ever understand how your person could do this. Hell, I'm three years out from Dday and almost a year divorced- I don't understand it, but I realize my ex and the mother of my children is someone who did not struggle to do some really terrible things and was completely functional living a double life. Screwing around with a married person is monstrous shit. Screwing your husband’s best friend and your best friend’s husband is monstrous shit. Screwing around just after you brought a child into the world in monstrous shit. Having an affair for several years that involved sex whilst enjoying family get togethers is brazenly monstrous shit. I won't call your wife a monster, but she is most certainly a category type 2 cheater. These partners are fully broken imo and are not healthy for long-term relationships until figure why they have a void with in them.

For my personal story, I found out at 19 yrs of marriage my wife was screwing her coworker. And I busted her she did not confess. Type 2 cheaters normally never disclose until they leave for the AP, or their hand is forced. From your story it looks like your wife s hand was forced. I worked 1 year of reconciliation with my ex. Both of us in IC, an intensive affair recovery program, and marriage counseling. She continued to lie and cheat the whole time and much like you I thought she was remorseful and transparent willing to do whatever it took to save our marriage and family. At the year one mark I asked for a polygraph and her 1 affair turned into 4 and she confessed to cheating throughout reconciliation. I told her I was divorcing if she refused the poly, and she did. A few days later "god" told her to come clean with me. Unfaithful always hide their ultimate shame point for her I believe it was she was actually cheating my whole marriage and cheated with one of my friends. I found his zippo lighter in her car and she was never able to explain how it got there. This was about year 2 of our marriage and we were couple’s friends much like your scenario. I had a talk with her about the amount of text they would share and how it was inappropriate way back then. I could be wrong about this but with clearer perspective- that was probably her first affair.

For my advice do what you need to do to heal. I knew no matter what I had to fight to save my family and everything I built. During that year I also threw myself into personal recovery. I don't regret it one bit despite the outcome. My EX was narcissistic enough to say she really tried during reconciliation, good lord the bullshit. Let's see - you didn't stop lying, you didn't stop cheating, you gaslight me, our recovery group, and counselors. I am not saying your wife is like mine, but I am saying her character from your description is utter trash. My friend that is not built or destroyed overnight. Take your time, heal, make decisions that are best for you and realize it will take a herculean effort on her part to become the person you deserve.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. If you need to reach out, I'm here for you. And there is an excellent group of betrayed men on affair recovery to help as well. The sooner you accept that you will truly be okay with or without her the faster your healing process will go.

[This message edited by Fit43 at 3:50 PM, Tuesday, October 1st]